Shattered Glass review

[Dominic]

It was likely no more supressed than uncomfortable things about the history of any country. The information is often available, if unused.

So, morally inverted...........Combaticons? Who is up for it?

Dom

[Sparky Prime]

We're already given a 'lot' of hints that the Maximal rule of the era is very much not a nice one. Information on the Great Wars is suppressed and twisted, so much so that when they meet someone from that era (Starscream) he is able to convince them an entirely different set of events happened ("I killed Galvatron and Unicron!" or something else equally ridiculous). Not just that, but they created the corrupt mistake of Protoform X/Rampage. They might be intending to do good, but their actions speak otherwise.

All we know is that the Maximals classified information about Starscream, most likely due to their experiments in creating an immortal spark like Starscream's. That says nothing about the information on the rest of the Great War. The Predacons on the other hand clearly have their own records given Blackarachnia (a Maximal protoform) was able to find out the truth about Starscream's history. It appears Megatron (and the rest of his crew) just didn't bother to check out and verify Starscream's story.

And sure, the Maximals have obviously made some questionable decisions but they are still the peace keepers of the story.

This is assuming Shattered Glass BW leads off from Shattered Glass G1, which is just...stupid, and forcing things to be where they shouldn't be.

It's only logical a SG BW would be would be based on SG G1. Of course they could always do a different Mirror-verse version of BW though. And who says it'd be forcing things where they shouldn't be? It's a completely different universe with a story all its own.

That said, I do not think a "Beast Wars" in the SG context would work precisely because of that moral ambiguity.

The Maximals are not as nice as the Autobots.

The Maximals are still clearly the "good guys" of the story with the Predacons being the "bad guys". That's the only thing that matters.

[Onslaught Six]

So, morally inverted...........Combaticons? Who is up for it?

I still intend to, I'm just mulling it over.

[onslaught86]

Hmm, I fear they'd be too similar to Defensor and Superion - Defensor being the big scary robot that wants to help but scares humans away, and Superion being focused entirely on destroying Decepticons.

I'd find a gestalt rather interesting if the standard formula were inverted - the individual members were slow and stupid, and the combined form agile and intelligent - one mind split into several as opposed to several merged into one.

[BWprowl]

The Maximals are still clearly the "good guys" of the story with the Predacons being the "bad guys". That's the only thing that matters.

I'm calling this one, as I've been thinking about this whole thing ALL DAY. How exactly are the sides in Beast Wars presented as 'Good' and 'Evil' short of outright statements like Megatron's oh-so-stoopid Agenda line? Seriously, name an action the Predacons took in Beast Wars that would be considered 'Evil'.

"They tried to kill the Protohumans!" you say?

Megatron started the "Bees Warz!" as a way to gain independence for the Predacons. The way he saw it, it all started because their ancestors, the Decepticons, failed to quash the Autobot uprising during the Great War (No tyranny, so no peace). This was partly due to the involvement of humans in that war. The way Megs saw it, humans were co-conspirators in the subjegation of his race, and just as much his 'Evil' enemies as the Maximals. So we can't objectively call his actions against the Protohumans evil, since the way he saw it, he was preventing those 'evil' humans from helping those 'evil' Autobots overthrow the peaceful tyranny of the Decepticons and eventually subjugating their descendants.

So with that little concern explained, I'll reiterate my question for everyone: How were the Maximals and Predacons in Beast Wars presented as 'Good' and 'Evil', respectively? Did the Predacons ever take any action that could be considered 'evil'?

What's really killing me is that, unless I can come up with a decent explaination that jibes with the way the sides have always been presented in media, I may have just accidentally proved that Beast Wars sucks.

[Sparky Prime]

"They tried to kill the Protohumans!" you say?

Megatron started the "Bees Warz!" as a way to gain independence for the Predacons. The way he saw it, it all started because their ancestors, the Decepticons, failed to quash the Autobot uprising during the Great War (No tyranny, so no peace). This was partly due to the involvement of humans in that war. The way Megs saw it, humans were co-conspirators in the subjegation of his race, and just as much his 'Evil' enemies as the Maximals. So we can't objectively call his actions against the Protohumans evil, since the way he saw it, he was preventing those 'evil' humans from helping those 'evil' Autobots overthrow the peaceful tyranny of the Decepticons and eventually subjugating their descendants.

So genocide of an entire species just so that Megatron can change history to make the Predacons the tyrannical rulers of the universe isn't evil? I'm sorry, but there is no way you can possibly justify genocide like that. It doesn't matter how Megatron sees it, it doesn't justify murdering an entire species and the billions of generations yet to come just so the Predacons can be the ones in charge instead of the Maximals. That's evil. Sure, the humans helped the Autobots and now the Maximals are in charge. But how is that a bad thing exactly? The Maximals and Predacons are living in an era of peace. Yes, the Maximals have put some restrictions on the Predacons so that they don't restart the Great War, but otherwise we see the Predacons have a great deal of independence. They have their own ruling council. Autonomy to set up space stations and the like. We even see despite the Maximals restrictions they are capable of carrying out their own agendas to undermine the Maximals government in secret. Life under the Maximals rule doesn't appear to be all that bad really.

Changing the timeline is also especially risky given you don't know what outcomes will happen as a result. Rather than make the Predacons rulers, Megatron could have just as easily resurrected Unicron with his tampering with the timeline. Or maybe even caused something worst.

So with that little concern explained, I'll reiterate my question for everyone: How were the Maximals and Predacons in Beast Wars presented as 'Good' and 'Evil', respectively? Did the Predacons ever take any action that could be considered 'evil'?

I find it hard to believe this is even a question... The Predacons are simply out to conquer and rule by any means. So how is the Predacons trying to restart a war that spread across the universe, or otherwise trying to change history through genocide or killing the Maximals (currently) defenseless ancestors, just so they can can be the tyrannical rulers of the universe not evil? Just because the Predacons want to conquer and rule and see themselves as 'oppressed' because they aren't the ones in power doesn't justify these actions. That's what makes them the bad guys.
The Maximals on the other hand we see are just trying to maintain the peace and the timeline.

[Onslaught Six]

I would like to point out at this time that a Shattered Glass BW would not even explicitly need to include the journey back in time and to Earth. Doing that just limits story possibilities and is pointless.

There's an important distinction in the BW Era--There's The Predacons, and then there's Megatron's Band Of Merry Men. Megs's philosophies and ideals 'do not' represent the ideals of the Predacons as a whole.

[BWprowl]

So genocide of an entire species just so that Megatron can change history to make the Predacons the tyrannical rulers of the universe isn't evil? I'm sorry, but there is no way you can possibly justify genocide like that. It doesn't matter how Megatron sees it, it doesn't justify murdering an entire species and the billions of generations yet to come just so the Predacons can be the ones in charge instead of the Maximals. That's evil. Sure, the humans helped the Autobots and now the Maximals are in charge. But how is that a bad thing exactly? The Maximals and Predacons are living in an era of peace. Yes, the Maximals have put some restrictions on the Predacons so that they don't restart the Great War, but otherwise we see the Predacons have a great deal of independence. They have their own ruling council. Autonomy to set up space stations and the like. We even see despite the Maximals restrictions they are capable of carrying out their own agendas to undermine the Maximals government in secret. Life under the Maximals rule doesn't appear to be all that bad really.

Like I said about the protohumans, Megatron saw it as getting rid of evil co-conspirators. It would be like... I dunno, if IDW Hot Rod decided to stop this current Scorponok-controlling-the-Dinobots thing by going back and getting rid of the Nebulans. Hell, the Autobots doomed the Quintessons to extinction in the Space Pirates arc of the Marvel UK comics. They don't see it as 'Genocide', it's self-defense against a group that has caused harm to them.

Changing the timeline is also especially risky given you don't know what outcomes will happen as a result. Rather than make the Predacons rulers, Megatron could have just as easily resurrected Unicron with his tampering with the timeline. Or maybe even caused something worst.

I find it hard to believe this is even a question... The Predacons are simply out to conquer and rule by any means. So how is the Predacons trying to restart a war that spread across the universe, or otherwise trying to change history through genocide or killing the Maximals (currently) defenseless ancestors, just so they can can be the tyrannical rulers of the universe not evil? Just because the Predacons want to conquer and rule and see themselves as 'oppressed' because they aren't the ones in power doesn't justify these actions. That's what makes them the bad guys.
The Maximals on the other hand we see are just trying to maintain the peace and the timeline.

But that's the thing: I don't think Megatron ever says he wants to "Rool teh Univarse!", he's jut trying to get the Predacons out from under the Maximal rule. It makes me wonder just how bad Megs had it on Cybertron that he was willing to go as far as he did (he says himself that he knows full well the dangers of his tampering with time, yet does it anyway). It'd be interesting to see a story explaining just why Megatron hates Maximals so much.

[Sparky Prime]

Like I said about the protohumans, Megatron saw it as getting rid of evil co-conspirators. It would be like... I dunno, if IDW Hot Rod decided to stop this current Scorponok-controlling-the-Dinobots thing by going back and getting rid of the Nebulans. Hell, the Autobots doomed the Quintessons to extinction in the Space Pirates arc of the Marvel UK comics. They don't see it as 'Genocide', it's self-defense against a group that has caused harm to them.

Humans were innocent bystanders that were forced into the Transformers war when they came to their planet. It doesn't matter if Megatron saw them as 'evil co-conspirators', wiping out all the humans just so the Predacons can rule in place of the Maximals does not justify the act of genocide. He wasn't acting in self-defense, he was only doing it to further is own cause, to conquer and rule. Not to mention going back in time to destroy them when they are defenseless is sort of further insult to injury.

The situation with the Quintessons is far from the same thing. In the Space Pirates arc, the Quintessons were looking to conquer Cybertron to make it their new homeworld and eliminate the Transformers. So it actually was self-defense on the Transformers part in that situation. And Autobots weren't actively trying to commit genocide. They were just defending themselves from an invading threat. Much like the humans were doing when the Transformers came to their planet...

But that's the thing: I don't think Megatron ever says he wants to "Rool teh Univarse!", he's jut trying to get the Predacons out from under the Maximal rule. It makes me wonder just how bad Megs had it on Cybertron that he was willing to go as far as he did (he says himself that he knows full well the dangers of his tampering with time, yet does it anyway). It'd be interesting to see a story explaining just why Megatron hates Maximals so much.

Do you think Megatron would be happy just ruling Cybertron? Once he has that, his likely goal would be to spread his tyranny to other worlds. And like I said before, life under Maximal rule doesn't appear all that bad with what we saw in BW. The Predacons just aren't happy with the fact they aren't the dominant ruling party having to answer to the Maximal government.

[Rampage01]

And like I said before, life under Maximal rule doesn't appear all that bad with what we saw in BW. The Predacons just aren't happy with the fact they aren't the dominant ruling party having to answer to the Maximal government.

Except we've never actually seen what life is like for the Predacons on Cybertron. All we have to go by is what's been said by some of the characters on the show, and the only characters that have made any mention of what life might be like on Cybertron in that time period have been Predacons.