Comics are Awesome III

[Dominic]

Take for example shows like Dr. Who. Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise. Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, Universe.

The genre of all of those.....forget it. I just cannot deal with it.

Especially as of late with DC seeing as they've done away with a lot of their legacy characters while Marvel's always kind of glossed over problems like that by using a sliding time scale.

The DC problem is over-blown. DC characters have never aged. Bruce Wayne has always been ~30 (outside of some obscure 70s stuff that nobody cares about that would have assumed he aged). The Golden Age characters aged off-page, during years they were not published, and consistently got re-youthified through various means. (In some cases, they even came back from the dead.)

I dunno about you, but I really don't see a lot, if any, astericks attached to the stories I've read lately. I mean, there's really no reason to explain something like "he got better" if you can clearly see the character is alive and well in the story you're currently reading.

The fact that the characters are being raised or otherwise set back to spec is the problem.

[Sparky Prime]

The genre of all of those.....forget it. I just cannot deal with it.

What about the genre of all of them? It doesn't negate the fact that they're all long running television series which obviously would have a lot of continuity to them.

The DC problem is over-blown. DC characters have never aged. Bruce Wayne has always been ~30 (outside of some obscure 70s stuff that nobody cares about that would have assumed he aged). The Golden Age characters aged off-page, during years they were not published, and consistently got re-youthified through various means. (In some cases, they even came back from the dead.)

How's it over-blown for DC? With events that can affect and change the very fabric of the universe, it makes sense some characters history would change that'd affect their ages and stuff. Which is exactly what Marvel is in the process of doing. But still, the DC characters have aged, and it's not just the Golden Age characters. You even said so yourself, the first time you said Batman has been kept at relatively the same age but his kid sidekicks have aged up and out into their own roles. Bruce also hasn't always been ~30 years old the entire time he's been Batman, he would have started before that in his 20's at least. Or how about Wally West, who originally was Kid Flash and eventually took over the role of Flash himself when Barry died in CoIE. Wally even and had kids of his own before Flashpoint (and still does considering we see them in Convergence).

The fact that the characters are being raised or otherwise set back to spec is the problem.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the comics become bogged down with astericks to tell readers about those events.

[andersonh1]

Up until 2011, DC did a fairly good job of having their characters age, albeit very gradually. Dick Grayson went from being 11 or so in 1940 to being 18 and heading off to college in 1970. It took 30 actual years for 7 fictional years to pass. The other kid sidekicks grew up as well. One assumes the older mentors aged the same amount. Time did pass for the characters, albeit very slowly, so that they could continue to be young enough to be in their prime. The rate of time passing has not been consistent. Wally West turned 20 in the first episode of his series in 1987, but he's probably no older than 24 or 25 in his most recent appearance in Convergence (remember his children aged artificially quickly), but that's just a guess. Whatever his age, his life has clearly moved forward. The same is true of Superman and Lois. The same is true for Batman, who has had a son for a number of (real time) years now.

The point is, these characters do inch forward. It's very slow, so they can retain the appearance of youthfulness, but that forward progress is there. And I'm fine with that approach. I think it does what it's supposed to do, which is to let these characters be somewhat static while also allowing a degree of forward progress. Continuity also helps there, because the characters have a history on the printed page that can be referred back to.

The New 52 has been very regressive in this regard. It's really turned back the clock and is probably the worst offender when it comes to wiping out forward progress for the majority of characters involved. Batman is the exception, but even there they tried to cram it all into a five year timeline, which no one is happy with.

[andersonh1]

Having bought a lot of Convergence titles, I'm glad to see the books are doing fairly well. Some books are selling at greater numbers than the equivalent New 52 books with similar characters have been selling, though not all. I'll be interested to see some sales analysis down the road.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 15-04.html

2 Convergence 0* $4.99 DC 143,053
3 Convergence 1* $4.99 DC 132,747
6 Convergence 2* $3.99 DC 111,760
7 Convergence 3* $3.99 DC 109,388
9 Convergence 4* $3.99 DC 106,131
17 Convergence Harley Quinn 1 $3.99 DC 69,838
22 Convergence Justice League 1 $3.99 DC 62,916
25 Convergence Batman Shadow of the Bat 1 $3.99 DC 58,693
26 Convergence Batman & Robin 1 $3.99 DC 56,720
27 Convergence Detective Comics 1 $3.99 DC 56,522
34 Convergence Superman 1 $3.99 DC 51,823
36 Convergence Nightwing Oracle 1 $3.99 DC 50,621
41 Convergence Batgirl 1 $3.99 DC 46,891
42 Convergence Green Lantern Parallax 1 $3.99 DC 46,539
43 Convergence Justice League America 1 $3.99 DC 46,111
44 Convergence Flash 1 $3.99 DC 45,414
45 Convergence Action Comics 1 $3.99 DC 45,189
47 Convergence Wonder Woman 1 $3.99 DC 44,959
48 Convergence Batman & The Outsiders 1 $3.99 DC 44,078
51 Convergence New Teen Titans 1 $3.99 DC 43,547
52 Convergence Suicide Squad 1 $3.99 DC 43,518
53 Convergence Speed Force 1 $3.99 DC 42,977
57 Convergence Titans 1 $3.99 DC 40,518
58 Convergence Adventures of Superman 1 $3.99 DC 40,337
61 Convergence Shazam 1 $3.99 DC 39,587
64 Convergence Justice Society of America 1 $3.99 DC 38,911
66 Convergence Justice League Intl 1 $3.99 DC 38,579
68 Convergence Aquaman 1 $3.99 DC 37,749
69 Convergence Green Lantern Corps 1 $3.99 DC 37,437
70 Convergence Green Arrow 1 $3.99 DC 37,303
71 Convergence Catwoman 1 $3.99 DC 37,215
72 Convergence Superman Man of Steel 1 $3.99 DC 37,093
76 Convergence Supergirl Matrix 1 $3.99 DC 34,634
77 Convergence Question 1 $3.99 DC 34,446
81 Convergence Booster Gold 1 $3.99 DC 34,191
82 Convergence Crime Syndicate 1 $3.99 DC 33,891
83 Convergence Superboy 1 $3.99 DC 33,739
84 Convergence Superboy & The Legion 1 $3.99 DC 33,605
85 Convergence Swamp Thing 1 $3.99 DC 33,424
86 Convergence Atom 1 $3.99 DC 33,154
87 Convergence Hawkman 1 $3.99 DC 32,985
88 Convergence Worlds Finest Comics 1 $3.99 DC 32,635
91 Convergence Blue Beetle 1 $3.99 DC 32,172
101 Convergence Plastic Man Freedom Fighters 1 $3.99 DC 30,460
102 Convergence Infinity Inc 1 $3.99 DC 30,114

[Dominic]

How much of those numbers are curiosity driven though? Given how decidedly retro some of the "Convergence" books are, would they sell long-term? (Even accepting "Detective Comics" as a stylistic riff, it is nearly unreadable.) Assuming that all "Convergence" books are replaced (as a hypothetical example) series of similar quality that use the same root settings and concepts, I would come back for one or two (JSA and....Crime Syndicate of all things). But, I would avoid "Detective" and anything written by Wein if the "Convergence" issues are at all indicative of what a continuing series would be.

[andersonh1]

Whatever the motivation, if nothing else it goes to show that these older characters are still viable in today's market. I don't expect DC to replace any of their mainline characters with older versions, but I'm still pleased to see the sales numbers. And this doesn't even count the digital side, which is supposed to have been stronger than retail. DC's bound to be happy with their little filler event.

[andersonh1]

This week's books: Convergence #7, Adventures of Superman #2, Green Lantern Corps #2, Hawkman #2, New Teen Titans #2, and The Flash #2. One week to go.

Convergence #7
This series is fast approaching the finish line. It's more of a thematic sequel to Zero Hour than to Crisis, given that Parallax was a major player in that series, and given that we had a number of instances where characters from different times and realities met and interacted, though not on the scale we see here. The series also lacks the craftsmanship and weight of Crisis, which had that exquisite George Perez art and long time writer Marv Wolfman supplying the plot. This time around DC deliberately chose a new to comics writer and a variety of artists for this weekly series that are not the best they have to offer, though I don't want to see them short given the time crunch and all the characters they have to draw. They get the job done.

In the New 52 universe, the Justice League is trying to figure out how to deal with the encroaching planet Telos. Batman calls Superman to return to Earth, but he's in space with Supergirl, trying to save lives. Some giant stone Oracle, who I'm not familiar with, who can normally see the future is unable to predict it and tells Superman that he cannot save everyone. The New 52 characters are not interacting with the older ones yet, but the Martian Manhunter keeps getting telepathic flashes of the battle and wonders why it all seems so familiar to him.

On the planet Telos, everyone is fighting everyone. That's the simplest way to put it. Supermen of all eras, Wonder Women of all eras, etc. I wish we had a patented George Perez crowd shot from a long distance for all of this instead of a series of medium level panels. The art should make this epic, but it doesn't. Telos attempts to wrest control from Deimos, but is hard pressed to fight him. In the end it's Parallax, Hal Jordan, who simply wipes Deimos from existence almost casually. But in doing so, he releases all of the temporal energy that Deimos had absorbed into himself, and the issue ends with the New 52 Oracle telling New 52 Superman that all of reality is falling apart.

Overall: I said last week that if Parallax didn't play a part in the resolution of the plot it would be a wasted opportunity, given that his power levels have to equal or surpass both Telos and Deimos. The fact that he does means that whoever plotted this story out is paying attention. It wouldn't surprise me if Parallax absorbs all of the released temporal energy in the final issue next week and is instrumental in either restoring the lost timelines or creating a new one for them, particularly since he features on the cover to issue 8. And I strongly suspect that the effect this "incursion" (to borrow a Marvel term) has on the New 52 universe will be used to explain any loose continuity when normal publication resumes in June. That's certainly implied if not outright stated.

[Dominic]

This will give DC another chance to re-jigger time/history. Of course, if the rumours about "Divergence" play out (and, if recent comments from DC are to be taken seriously, this seems likely), DC can keep New 52 and will still be running books using the old rules as well.

risis, which had that exquisite George Perez art and long time writer Marv Wolfman supplying the plot.

No series will ever be as ambitious as "Crisis" because it was the first such attempt. Even discounting scale (12 issues + tie-ins), "Crisis on Infinite Earths" set precedents for the industry.

This time around DC deliberately chose a new to comics writer and a variety of artists for this weekly series that are not the best they have to offer, though I don't want to see them short given the time crunch and all the characters they have to draw. They get the job done.

Keep in mind, "Convergence" was supposed to be a cheap and easy filler event while DC moved. It just happened to catch-on. DC had no incentive to spend money on making it good. (And, really, it was meant to be a stupid fight book.)

The question now is what lessons DC draws from this. Will they keep publishing dumb fight books? Will they write looser books now? More events and frequent events?

[Sparky Prime]

Some giant stone Oracle, who I'm not familiar with, who can normally see the future is unable to predict it and tells Superman that he cannot save everyone.

He showed up a while back in the Superman comics. He sent Superman, Supergirl and Superboy back in time to Krypton in order to stop H'El from creating alternate timelines which would make "ripples" in time and result in a "chronal tsunami" that'd destroy the universe.

[andersonh1]

Some giant stone Oracle, who I'm not familiar with, who can normally see the future is unable to predict it and tells Superman that he cannot save everyone.

He showed up a while back in the Superman comics. He sent Superman, Supergirl and Superboy back in time to Krypton in order to stop H'El from creating alternate timelines which would make "ripples" in time and result in a "chronal tsunami" that'd destroy the universe.

Okay, I figured he had to have appeared in portions of the series I hadn't read. And here he's dealing with time and dimensional threats, so the use of the character makes sense.