The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

[andersonh1]

Well at least we both seem to agree that Barber's dang-near ruined Prowl by this point!

Yeah, I think we can agree on that!

[Shockwave]

I guess that makes three of us then. Prowl is basically a Decepticon with an Autobot badge as Anderson said. I always kind of thought of him as the antithesis of Shockwave. Prowl's original tech spec describes him as logical to the point of being confounded by emotional reactions. So he's basically good Spock and Shockwave was Spock with the goatee from the Mirror Universe. IDW's version has basically used logic to justify his actions. And with the end of the war, there's even less distinction betwee him and the Decepticons.

[BWprowl]

I should point out that I absolutely don't mind Prowl doing Bad Things. What he did in AHM was a Bad Thing, and what he did in LSotW was a Bad Thing. The interesting, compelling parts of it are the WHY he does it. Everything he did in LSotW was predicated on the point that he felt it was his duty to safeguard the Autobots' image of themselves as the Good Guys, and if he had to cover up a bunch of horrible secrets while adding some new ones, so be it. I think in those cases, what made it interesting was that Prowl knew what he was doing was wrong on some level or another, but did it anyway because he felt he had too.

The early issues of RID, before the rug came out, played off this well. My favorite thing Prowl did there was the assassination of Ratbat and rattling of the Decepticons' cage, because he *just knew* they were up to no good, if only he could force their hand. In his mind, he was doing no wrong in how he provoked them, because even though the war was over, the Decepticons were the Bad Guys and the Autobots were the Good Guys and it was their job to stop them. Ideally, his arc would've entailed him going one too many steps too far (as the story made us *think* he did) only to be confronted with the consequences of his actions (preferably by his fellow Autobots) and 'fall' (either by dying, or otherwise 'going away') in the end. Instead...we got him reset back to the same baseline level of moral ambiguity he's been stuck at since AHM, and now if anderson's tellings of not-RID are to be believed, exaggerated into an over-the-top ambitious jerk who really is indiscernible from the same types of Decepticons, or a million other over-the-top ambitious jerks in fiction. Sad.

[andersonh1]

Which is why I still hope he's heading for a fall. He almost has to be... the guy who hates Decepticons is essentially leading the Constructicons and forming Devastator whenever it suits him? Really? There has to be some payoff for that somewhere down the road. He may have been forced into it at first, but he's taking full advantage of it now.

[Dominic]

I don't read (or watch or whatever) stories with a big foam finger and a sign promoting a character I like and agree with, I'm not rooting for anyone and I don't 'care' if one or the other comes out on top in a conflict.

This, more or less.

When I was reading more GW novels, one of my favourite characters was Commissar Kyogen ("Execution Hour" and "Shadow Point"). He was a correctly written Commissar in what might have turned in to an ongoing series. Then, he got aced in the second book. But, i did not complain because there was no good way to have the second book play-out that would have allowed Kyogen to live. (The writer could have had Kyogen go on a long errand or in to a coma. But, that would have been stupid.) It is more important for the book/comics/movie to be good than for a favoured character to make it out alive.

The very concepts of loyalty to an institution itself, rather than strict adherence to its ideals, can be explored in a multitude of ways through Prowl as a character. There's tons of great stuff there that you simply aren't going to get with Prowl as a bog-standard human-savin'-hero, which is a much more straight-laced concept that's easier to predict and less entertaining as a result.

Exactly. I was half-hoping to see Prowl trying to whack Verity (owing to what she knows about Garrus-9 and the trials). Of course, the way the comics have been going, that would probably get loused up pretty badly.

At a purely conceptual level, I would rather have Prowl from LSotW over Prowl from the Spotligh

Prowl from the "Spotlight" issue did not bother me because he was being used to show Costa's "need for change" theme. Prowl, along with Optimus and Thundercracker, saw that the old business model was failing. They had to try something new. Prowl gave optimism a try.

Instead...we got him reset back to the same baseline level of moral ambiguity he's been stuck at since AHM, and now if anderson's tellings of not-RID are to be believed, exaggerated into an over-the-top ambitious jerk who really is indiscernible from the same types of Decepticons, or a million other over-the-top ambitious jerks in fiction. Sad.

What Barber was going for there was showing how bad Prowl was by demonstrating that Prowl under Decepticon control was hard to tell apart from regular Prowl.


Still, I have to wonder how much of this is Barber's fault. (No question, some of it is.) Some of it might be editorial mandates and such. Either way, the comics are not so good right now.

[andersonh1]

What Barber was going for there was showing how bad Prowl was by demonstrating that Prowl under Decepticon control was hard to tell apart from regular Prowl.

And that should have been a wakeup call for the character, but if anything he's doubled down on his behavior. The question I'm starting to ponder is whether or not he has even escaped Decepticon influence. He went right from being controlled by Bombshell to being forced into being part of Devastator and merging his consciousness with the Constructicons. We still might not be seeing the real Prowl after all this time. And the effect may go in both directions. Maybe friendlier Constructicons are a result of being bonded with Prowl. Maybe each has influenced the other's behavior, with the Constructicons having a greater effect on Prowl since it's five versus one.

Hopefully this whole situation will be resolved soon, because now I'm really curious about what's going on.

[BWprowl]

What Barber was going for there was showing how bad Prowl was by demonstrating that Prowl under Decepticon control was hard to tell apart from regular Prowl.

Which was stupid, because we already knew Prowl was bad. Barber went over-the-top to demonstrate something that had already been aptly demonstrated at least, like, three times over in the comics, and ended with a reset back to that characteristic status quo with little-to-no payoff. It's like writing an epic, twelve-issue maxi-series all to end with the shocking revelation that the sky is, in fact, still blue.

[andersonh1]

Transformers #38
It’s time to wrap things up before Combiner Wars begins, and this issue appears to tie up most of the Earth-based plot threads. It’s all action as everyone confronts Devastator, who can’t make up his mind whether or not he wants the Enigma of Combination or wants to kill Spike. There’s a very welcome conversation where Jimmy Pink discusses the fact that he knew Prowl in the old days, only to be told by Arcee that Prowl isn’t who he was in those days. Arcee also accuses Prowl of “becoming the enemy”, confirming that a lot of of what I’ve been saying about Prowl is what Barber is going for. I still think that after being mind-controlled by Bombshell and now forcibly combined with the Constructicons that Prowl hasn’t been himself in a long time. And he doesn’t realize it.

Spike gets some comeuppance, but lives through the issue. Jimmy Pink finally justifies his presence in the story since he enables the conversation about how Prowl has changed. Scoop steals the enigma and heads for Cybertron. Thundercracker and Soundwave destroy the Thrust and Ramjet clones, and Galvatron shows that despite his flaws, he does think ahead and genuinely seems to fear what the enigma will do to Cybertron.

[Dominic]

Flipped through it at the comic shop today.

Questions and comments:

There’s a very welcome conversation where Jimmy Pink discusses the fact that he knew Prowl in the old days, only to be told by Arcee that Prowl isn’t who he was in those days.

Prowl was not exactly a nice guy back then either.

I still think that after being mind-controlled by Bombshell and now forcibly combined with the Constructicons that Prowl hasn’t been himself in a long time.

Wasn't that kind of the point? Barber implied that nobody realized that Prowl had turned because Prowl (outside of the Costa run) was never especially nice.

Thundercracker and Soundwave destroy the Thrust and Ramjet clones,

I was so glad that none of the clones gained individual sentience.

[andersonh1]

Prowl was not exactly a nice guy back then either.

And he's descended quite a bit since then. I'm just glad to see that it's apparent to the characters in-story, who logically should notice when someone goes from bad to worse.

Wasn't that kind of the point? Barber implied that nobody realized that Prowl had turned because Prowl (outside of the Costa run) was never especially nice.

My point is to wonder just when, apart from the first few issues, has Prowl actually been himself, or without some sort of outside influence? He was under Bombshell's mind control from issue 4 through 14, and then forcibly merged with Devastator in that same issue, a status which has continued to the present issue. So basically Prowl has been himself for four and a half issues out of 38. He's either been under mental control or had his mind linked and blended (and thus susceptible to influence) for much longer. It may very well be the fact that he's already fairly ruthless that allows him to function smoothly with the Constructicons, but that doesn't mean they can't have influenced him to be worse. That's all I'm saying.