More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[Onslaught Six]

The book has gotten a lot of fans who are not in the traditional TF paradigm to tune in. A lot of them are women, and a lot of them buy it digitally. So that's a thing, and it's cool.

[Shockwave]

Actually if you go back through the discussion, you'll find that's exactly what some people have argued...

It's a series about Transformers. Going from one mode to the other is what these characters are all about.

On a more superficial level, it is a part of the appeal, the 'cool' factor of TFs, and all there is about them.

So no, my arguing that there is more to Transformers than transforming is an entirely relevant point in this discussion.

NOW who's taking stuff out of context?! There isn't enough facepalm on the internet for this. I mean, you really honestly ACTUALLY believe that both Anderson and Prowl really think that the comics and media should just be robots transforming literally 100% of the time? Because that's not what I got out of either of those statements. Sometimes people don't mean things literally Sparky. Sometimes you kind of have to read between the lines and interpret what they really mean. And sometimes it's a matter of context. Personally, I took those statement to just mean that, like me, they consider transforming to be the main gimmick of the line and should (for the most part) be prominent in the fiction. I certainly did not take those statements to mean that either them thinks that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll leave that up to Anderson and Prowl but I honestly think you grossly misread those statements.

[Shockwave]

The book has gotten a lot of fans who are not in the traditional TF paradigm to tune in. A lot of them are women, and a lot of them buy it digitally. So that's a thing, and it's cool.

It's cool that it's bringing in more fans and more diverse fans and that more people are more familiar with the franchise. I just can't bring myself to go digital yet. There's something about the idea of reading something on a computer screen for that length of time that...

*looks at last six pages of thread*

Never mind

[andersonh1]

Personally, I took those statement to just mean that, like me, they consider transforming to be the main gimmick of the line and should (for the most part) be prominent in the fiction. I certainly did not take those statements to mean that either them thinks that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll leave that up to Anderson and Prowl but I honestly think you grossly misread those statements.

Nope, you got my meaning exactly right. Transforming should not be almost entirely absent from a book about Transformers. A panel here and there isn't good enough. Now I wouldn't have dropped the book just because of that. I dropped it for other reasons which I've detailed, but it's a fair criticism of MTMTE to ask why the Transformers so rarely transform.

And I appreciate that Roberts is exploring what transformation and having alternate physical forms means to Transformers society, so he's taken things beyond just the basic act of transformation, but it's no more sophisticated an exploration of the topic than something Star Trek might do. It's just using sci-fi analogues for racism and class warfare. It's not really all that original, and it's honestly sucked a lot of the fun and charm out of the book. Beneath the constant witty banter is a pretty sordid bunch of characters.

[Sparky Prime]

NOW who's taking stuff out of context?! There isn't enough facepalm on the internet for this. I mean, you really honestly ACTUALLY believe that both Anderson and Prowl really think that the comics and media should just be robots transforming literally 100% of the time? Because that's not what I got out of either of those statements. Sometimes people don't mean things literally Sparky. Sometimes you kind of have to read between the lines and interpret what they really mean. And sometimes it's a matter of context. Personally, I took those statement to just mean that, like me, they consider transforming to be the main gimmick of the line and should (for the most part) be prominent in the fiction. I certainly did not take those statements to mean that either them thinks that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll leave that up to Anderson and Prowl but I honestly think you grossly misread those statements.

It's still you taking things out of context. I didn't just take the part of a sentence from something they'd said like you did to me, thus giving what it an entirely different meaning. I quoted their complete sentences, where they literally did say that transforming is what they're all about. And yes, I'm sure they didn't mean they should be transforming 100% of the time either. But then that's not at all what I was arguing, was it? Rather, as I keep saying, there are plenty of other factors that people enjoy about this book and that transformation need not be the main gimmick as they, and yourself, suggest. Yet for some reason you keep misinterpreting that for the extreme, just like you are once again with this.

[Shockwave]

NOW who's taking stuff out of context?! There isn't enough facepalm on the internet for this. I mean, you really honestly ACTUALLY believe that both Anderson and Prowl really think that the comics and media should just be robots transforming literally 100% of the time? Because that's not what I got out of either of those statements. Sometimes people don't mean things literally Sparky. Sometimes you kind of have to read between the lines and interpret what they really mean. And sometimes it's a matter of context. Personally, I took those statement to just mean that, like me, they consider transforming to be the main gimmick of the line and should (for the most part) be prominent in the fiction. I certainly did not take those statements to mean that either them thinks that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll leave that up to Anderson and Prowl but I honestly think you grossly misread those statements.

It's still you taking things out of context. I didn't just take the part of a sentence from something they'd said like you did to me, thus giving what it an entirely different meaning. I quoted their complete sentences, where they literally did say that transforming is what they're all about. And yes, I'm sure they didn't mean they should be transforming 100% of the time either. But then that's not at all what I was arguing, was it? Rather, as I keep saying, there are plenty of other factors that people enjoy about this book and that transformation need not be the main gimmick as they, and yourself, suggest. Yet for some reason you keep misinterpreting that for the extreme, just like you are once again with this.

At this point, you either disagree with me or you just plain don't understand my point and after a bajillion times of trying, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain my point, I'm done. Clearly you don't get and you're not going to so I'm done with this discussion.

[Sparky Prime]

At this point, you either disagree with me or you just plain don't understand my point and after a bajillion times of trying, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain my point, I'm done. Clearly you don't get and you're not going to so I'm done with this discussion.

You can't be serious. I've understood your point perfectly fine and you are right that I don't agree with it, which is why I've been explaining my side of it. But you've obviously been misinterpreting my point seeing as you keep thinking I'm saying transformation isn't necessary, despite my numerous attempts to explain that's not at all what I've been saying, particularly when you've taken some quotes completely out of context in the last few posts. You even acknowledged at one point that you mistook what I've been saying for something Dom had said, only you seemed to forget about that by the next post. So don't try to give me that BS I'm the one who's not getting it.

[Shockwave]

At this point, you either disagree with me or you just plain don't understand my point and after a bajillion times of trying, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain my point, I'm done. Clearly you don't get and you're not going to so I'm done with this discussion.

You can't be serious. I've understood your point perfectly fine and you are right that I don't agree with it, which is why I've been explaining my side of it. But you've obviously been misinterpreting my point seeing as you keep thinking I'm saying transformation isn't necessary, despite my numerous attempts to explain that's not at all what I've been saying, particularly when you've taken some quotes completely out of context in the last few posts. You even acknowledged at one point that you mistook what I've been saying for something Dom had said, only you seemed to forget about that by the next post. So don't try to give me that BS I'm the one who's not getting it.

Ok, for some reason (maybe I'm a glutton for punishment), I'm going to try this again.

The titular concept should be prominent and/or frequently shown/used in the media created for said property.

See that? That right there ^? That's it. That is all I was saying and it doesn't cover anything beyond that. At no point is that meant to imply that there can't be more to the characters or a franchise than the title concept, so stating such is irrelevant to that point. Why? First off, because I agree with that. You can't argue against someone who agrees with you on something. That's just not how that works. And secondly, because I'm not addressing the impact of other aspects or concepts of a property.

you keep thinking I'm saying transformation isn't necessary, despite my numerous attempts to explain that's not at all what I've been saying,

So you agree with me then.

The whole point of this discussion has been the amount of transforming used in a comic book series. Something that doesn't need to be put in the spotlight as it is not necessary to be the main focus in an already WELL ESTABLISHED franchise, not to mention this particular storyline.

but the main focus should be and is on the characters themselves. Transforming is just something that they do, it's not the end all, be all of everything.

Or maybe not…

A lot of other concepts you can't just ignore

Yes I can because that’s not what my point is focused on. See that statement up at the top? That’s the only point I’m interested in. Not the other concepts. Yes, there are other concepts, and they are part of the franchise, but I’m only interested in discussing whether or not transformation should be prominent in the fiction. It’s literally a yes or no question. Other concepts don’t factor into it.

[Shockwave]

And just read the latest issue. Brainstorm actually does use his alt mode in this one. Rodimus and co. are time hopping trying to find and stop Brainstorm. Rodimus issues the usual time travel warning of "don't interfere with anything" while promtly ignoring his own advice by trying to save Trailbreaker. Chromedome mindwipes everyone when they leave, including Trailbreaker, which seems to imply that the IDW universe has a way of working itself out. I wonder if Brainstorm would be unable to complete his objective anyway because of this. The phone call between Megatron and Orion Pax was amusing, particularly the part when Orion say's "Join us" and Megatron replies "At some point I think I will". Too bad, Pax doesn't remember it. Others here have speculated that Roller will later become Tarn, maybe, maybe not, there wasn't anything in this issue that seemed to specifically hint at it, but time will tell.

I have mixed feelings about Roller. On the one hand, I do like seeing him be his own separate character, but on the other hand, the original tech spec stated that the three components of Optimus Prime were all one being with the Prime robot being the sentient part of him while the other two were more or less drones. But they were all still separate but connected and I would love to see that concept explored more fully. We did get a brief exploration of it in Escelation when Megatron nearly killed Prime, but I guess it would be neat to see it more maybe? I dunno. Overall, not a bad issue, it's obviously furthering the story so we'll see what happens next.

[andersonh1]

I thought Roller was the Optimus drone as well, but apparently it's another character with the same name.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Roller_%28IDW%29

James Roberts confirmed that Roller was a separate person from the other Roller in an interview. This was partly to mess with us by having someone so different from the Roller we knew, partly to suggest that Optimus named his drone after someone, and partly to give Orion Pax a friend who's no longer around so we'll wonder "whatever happened to Roller?!". (Ratchet's mention of "the last time" was to make us think Roller was going to die, to build tension; Roberts laments he now can't have Roller, Ratchet, and Pax hang out post-"Shadowplay")