More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[Sparky Prime]

Yeah and I enjoy the more to it too. But transformation again, is the core concept and what's in the title and what INITIALLY draws people in. Yes, there's more to it than that, but that's what people find AFTER they've been drawn in by the ORIGINAL CORE CONCEPT. The other stuff doesn't matter to this argument BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DEBATING!!! Yes, there's more to it, but you constantly bringing that up is completely irrelevant to what's being discussed. The main point here is that, in a property called TRANSFORMERS, characters should frequently be seen turning into stuff. Period. That's all Prowl and I are saying. That one titular concept should be a constant element in any stories featuring these characters.

We're talking about a franchise that is over 30 YEARS old at this point, heck, MTMTE itself is going into its 4th year now. A lot of other concepts you can't just ignore have become just as important for drawing people in, NOT just transforming. But regardless, we're not debating about what initially draws people into the franchise either way here. The whole point of this discussion has been the amount of transforming used in a comic book series. Something that doesn't need to be put in the spotlight as it is not necessary to be the main focus in an already WELL ESTABLISHED franchise, not to mention this particular storyline. And I haven't brought up anything irrelevant, I've only brought up other things to help illustrate the point I've been making. Yes, it's called Transformers, and the characters DO transform in it, but the main focus should be and is on the characters themselves. Transforming is just something that they do, it's not the end all, be all of everything.

EDIT: Y'know, I can't help wondering if these epic ten page misunderstandings on one of the main reasons why we don't have more traffic here.

Considering how sparse traffic has been over the last month or so with most of us I assume busy with other things, I don't think the debates is really the issue.

[Shockwave]

when people buy Transformers they expect a robot to transform into something. These are not unreasonable expectations

I'm not saying it's an unreasonable expectation.

Lol, yeah ya kind of are.

it is not necessary to be the main focus

I'm just gonna leave this here.

[Sparky Prime]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Sigh. You're taking those quotes COMPLETELY out of context.... Especially when we've already established I'm NOT saying transformation shouldn't be in the book. Thing is, there's a HUGE difference between making transformation the main focus of the book and just having it be an ability of the characters. I don't think the book should be ALL about transforming, it should be about the characters who can transform. See the difference?

[Dominic]

We're talking about a franchise that is over 30 YEARS old at this point, heck, MTMTE itself is going into its 4th year now. A lot of other concepts you can't just ignore have become just as important for drawing people in, NOT just transforming.

This.

As much as I am not a fan of "Transfoofoo: More than Meets the Eye", it has gone over pretty well with non-TF fans.

[Shockwave]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Sigh. You're taking those quotes COMPLETELY out of context.... Especially when we've already established I'm NOT saying transformation shouldn't be in the book. Thing is, there's a HUGE difference between making transformation the main focus of the book and just having it be an ability of the characters. I don't think the book should be ALL about transforming, it should be about the characters who can transform. See the difference?

No, I'm putting this BACK into context. Prowl is annoyed because Roberts has a major ongoing plot point about the core concept of the franchise while consistently refusing to actually show that concept in action. IE: If the story is about transformation in a book called Transformers, then transformation should actually be shown. THAT'S what we're talking about. That's it. We're not arguing anything outside of that. You either agree or disagree, period. There being more to the characters or the franchise is NOT in dispute and has nothing to do with the point at hand. Yes, there is more to Transformers than that, no one here is saying otherwise. Seriously, literally zero people here is arguing against that. You can keep saying at all you want, but that isn't going to make it any more relevant. Do YOU see the difference?

it has gone over pretty well with non-TF fans.

Dom, I don't even give a fuck what I think, why the hell would I care about this?

[Sparky Prime]

No, I'm putting this BACK into context. Prowl is annoyed because Roberts has a major ongoing plot point about the core concept of the franchise while consistently refusing to actually show that concept in action. IE: If the story is about transformation in a book called Transformers, then transformation should actually be shown. THAT'S what we're talking about. That's it. We're not arguing anything outside of that. You either agree or disagree, period. There being more to the characters or the franchise is NOT in dispute and has nothing to do with the point at hand. Yes, there is more to Transformers than that, no one here is saying otherwise. Seriously, literally zero people here is arguing against that. You can keep saying at all you want, but that isn't going to make it any more relevant. Do YOU see the difference?

You were taking my quotes out of context by once again suggesting I'm saying transformation doesn't need to be shown when that's not at all what I was saying. I know BWprowl's reasons for being annoyed with the book, but I think he's blowing it way out of proportion. And it certainly doesn't mean the book should be ALL about transforming and Roberts isn't actively refusing to show the characters transforming like he seems to believe, seeing as the characters DO transform in the book. But Roberts puts the focus on the CHARACTERS who have the ability to transform. It's one of the major reasons why I see so many people saying they love this book, which makes those reasons beyond transformation as much a part of the argument, whether or not you want to admit it. It's the other side of the argument, explaining why the book isn't all about transforming.

[Shockwave]

but I think he's blowing it way out of proportion.

Ok. That's fine. I disagree, but at least that's on topic. Seriously, why didn't you just lead with that?

And it certainly doesn't mean the book should be ALL about transforming and...

Nope nope nope, I'm gonna stop ya right there. See, that right there is why the rest of it isn't relevant to the discussion, because again, literally ZERO people here are trying to say that. And because we're not saying that, you trying to argue against it is a moot point.

Actually, you know what? Screw it: You win. I agree with you that it shouldn't be 100% about just and only transforming and you're right that there's more to both the franchise and the characters so congratulations, you win.

[Dominic]

Dom, I don't even give a fuck what I think, why the hell would I care about this?

Because it kind of shows that IDW has done something right, if only in market terms. This is the book that has people talking *favourably* about TF comics.

The last time that happened was ~10 years back, partly because Dreamwave was (if you can believe it) the darling of the industry from '02 until criminal mis-management destroyed the company in 04. The property also received some good buzz when people realized that Furman's end-run on the US book was pretty good. But, "More than Meets the Eye" has dwarfed both of those things.

[Sparky Prime]

Ok. That's fine. I disagree, but at least that's on topic. Seriously, why didn't you just lead with that?

I've been on topic the whole time. Admittedly the Smallville and Gotham stuff strayed a bit, but then that was still to help illustrate the point on the topic. And why would I lead with that when the topic didn't start out so blown out of proportion?

Nope nope nope, I'm gonna stop ya right there. See, that right there is why the rest of it isn't relevant to the discussion, because again, literally ZERO people here are trying to say that. And because we're not saying that, you trying to argue against it is a moot point.

Actually if you go back through the discussion, you'll find that's exactly what some people have argued...

It's a series about Transformers. Going from one mode to the other is what these characters are all about.

On a more superficial level, it is a part of the appeal, the 'cool' factor of TFs, and all there is about them.

So no, my arguing that there is more to Transformers than transforming is an entirely relevant point in this discussion.

[Shockwave]

Dom, I don't even give a fuck what I think, why the hell would I care about this?

Because it kind of shows that IDW has done something right, if only in market terms. This is the book that has people talking *favourably* about TF comics.

The last time that happened was ~10 years back, partly because Dreamwave was (if you can believe it) the darling of the industry from '02 until criminal mis-management destroyed the company in 04. The property also received some good buzz when people realized that Furman's end-run on the US book was pretty good. But, "More than Meets the Eye" has dwarfed both of those things.

At best that would only matter to me in terms of the likelyhood of the title continuing but honestly, after over ten years of consistently new content from IDW, I'm not especially worried about them giving up on TF. And the opinions of legions of people I don't know isn't something I even remotely care about. I don't care how TF is viewed in the comics industry, I don't care what "comic fans" in general think of the franchise and I don't even really care what the TF fandom (in general, I do care enough to read your guys' reviews here) thinks of the comics either. Mostly because I'm going to read them as long as there is someone willing to make them. As long as I am entertained by it, that's all I require. I know that doesn't set a particularly high bar, but there you have it.