Sparky Prime wrote:And I believe you're not understanding the story. It's not merely assuming the identity, there is more to it than that.
Again, I think you're underestimating the storyline. This would be more difficult than you seem to believe. Ultra Magnus developed a unique personality before he died, being equally loved and feared. That's not something that one could easily mimic. That's why Tryst decided to use him as his enforcer in the first place. Like I said before, it'd have to be consistently perfect all the time, not just among those that may have known the original because he'd wouldn't know absolutely everyone who the original may have known, in order to actually pull it off. Like I pointed out with "The Prestige". Every moment is dedicated to maintaining the secret.
Tell me what I"m missing. These bots, Ambus included, look and act like Magnus. They live his life, or what his life would have been had he survived. How is that not assuming his identity? They are impersonating him, they are taking on the role that he played in society, they are inhabiting his life. I don't see what I'm missing here.
He is Ultra Magnus, just not the original. For all intents and purposes, he's just like the genuine article was.
He is an ersatz Magnus. He's a fake. He's a propoganda tool and an enforcer for Tyrest.
BWprowl wrote:I guess I'm just of the opinion that Ambus here still 'counts' as a 'take' on Ultra Magnus, albeit an extremely different, radically reinvented one. I dunno, the idea of a Transformers character that exists purely as an idea, as a concept and identity that another bot has to fill in and take on, especially one that has weight to it like 'Ultra Magnus', is very compelling to me, and I find it interesting.
Sparky and I have been going in divergent directions with this recently, I'm not really trying to argue that Ambus had to exercise acting chops to 'pretend' to be Magnus or what have you. My feeling on it is less identity-theft and more like if people had yelled at Dick Greyson following Bruce's 'death': "You took Batman's costume and put it on and pretended to be him! Fraud!" "No, I'm succeeding his legacy, keeping the legend alive by protecting Gotham in this costume. I AM Batman."
Batman is a disguise, an identity created by Bruce Wayne with a specific purpose. For your example to be a closer analogy, Dick Grayson would have to turn Bruce Wayne into the identity rather than Batman, and act and live his life as though he was Bruce Wayne. Magnus was not originally a constructed identity, he was an individual who has been turned into a diguise and an identity. Do you see what I"m saying? There never was a Batman until Wayne invented him. He's a concept brought to life by the man under the mask. Magnus was an actual individual with a job, who has now become the secret identity.
No one looks at Batman without knowing that there's a man underneath whose identity they don't know. Everyone looks at Magnus and assumes he's who he appears to be, not a bot under some armor playing a role.
And again, my problem with it isn't so much the concept as it the fact that we've been robbed of the genuine article. I don't care about Minimus Ambus. I haven't been reading about him for the past eight years or so. It's a bait and switch, as far as I'm concerned.
This is the other deal. You keep iterating that you see it as Ambus 'impersonating' or 'pretending to be' Magnus, while I'm viewing it as more of a successor/legacy situation. I'm seeing it more as Dick Greyson as Batman, or the Dread Pirate Roberts, while you're viewing it more as...the Dark Avengers or something? I dunno.
For that approach to work for me, I'd have to have seen the original in action for some time. At least with Dick Grayson as Batman or Wally West as the Flash, we'd spent years watching them work beside their mentor before they stepped up to the plate and took on the bigger role. They'd earned the promotion, as it were. That's not what we have here. We haven't watched Magnus in action, and then watched him pass his role off to a successor, we've just been told that "this guy you thought was Magnus? He's really been someone else all along." It's a completely different situation for me. I can't look at it as a legacy, because I've never seen the original, and I have no idea what Ambus has done to earn the legacy. I can't support him in the role.
Quick thought- are you just a big fan of Ultra Magnus in general, Anderson? Like, is he up there in TF characters you just like reading about in general? Because frankly, I've never really given a shit about the guy, and only his portrayal in IDW (and then only recently) has even remotely made me interested in him. He's boring, to me, so a plot twist like this that reinvents him completely as a concept I actually find compelling is something that appeals. Might explain the disparity in our reactions here, anyway.
No, I wouldn't say he's ever been one of my favorites, though IDW has put him in a better role than just about any other continuity. He has always been a bit of a cipher who didn't seem to have a defined role in the hierarchy of characters, so it was good to see him put to use as law enforcement. I'm kind of in your shoes in that the IDW portrayal is the first really interesting use of the character, though MTMTE hasn't been good for him. He had been improved and then turned back into a bit of a joke with all his OCD mannerisms and refusal to smile, etc.
So no, it's not really any major emotional attachment. But there's enough there that when I'm being told I have to switch my attachment from Magnus (a character I've followed through many iterations since the animated movie) to Ambus (a character who has existed for all of three issues), I'm going to have a problem with that.
