Quick question, the message from the future that didn't get heard, have we already made it past those events, or is this the thing that gets cut off? I feel like we're past all that stuff, but haven't seen the message get sent so that's probably wrong.
On to MTMTE 19...
I quite enjoyed this issue. Answers to questions were given, new problems were brought up, Pharma really does seem to be a better surgeon than Ratchet at this point but we'll see how that plays out, and Whirl and Cyclonus had some pretty exciting adventure stuff without being overwhelming. Bad guys did bad things for bad reasons, mainly because they're crazy. Some very big ideas were thrown into the stewpot about the Matrix and creation and that sort of thing. And I got the lamest of the 3 variant covers, unless you have a deep love of a character who basically does nothing and is referred to as being more interesting than his current appearances so far. So, mainly a good middle act issue.
Shockwave wrote:Yeah, I'm largely unfamiliar with the Japanese series as well so I didn't recognize Star Saber either. The only Japanese series I've seen is Headmasters and that's only because I had the Shout Factory dvds. I'm still mostly unfamiliar with BW Neo and II although I am aware they exist.
Same here, I know the names of the brands and that's pretty much it.
BWP wrote:Oh, I didn't have 'access' to the toys or anything either, and I sure as hell can't speak Japanese or anything. All I know is Ben Yee reviewed a few Star Saber toys and talked about Star Saber, so I knew who Star Saber was. Maybe you guys avoided those reviews (since I know you were on Ben's site at the time, anyway), but it's not like the information was out of reach or on some obscure website that only I was on at the time.
I'm not sure we avoided them or just didn't delve into them, maybe it's because you were at an age where that sort of thing imprinted on you hard enough to find out more. Back in the day, there was so much US content for the brand that was being talked about, that the idea of looking into the myriad of Japanese lines - past and present - with their great societal and storytelling differences was not paramount to our specific zeitgeist, I think.
anderson wrote:No, I found a cheap one on Ebay. I don't actually think a lot of the figure, the torso doesn't stay together as well as it should. But it's novel having a Japanese "Prime" from a series I've never seen.
Ah, interesting. I really didn't love the figure, it had a sculpt that seemed like a step backwards, and the mountain of kibble on the right shoulder was overwhelming for me. I don't remember the torso being and issue, but it probably was.
I picked up the Shout Factory DVDs at Best Buy. I keep meaning to get Victory and watch it as well, though I'm probably going to have to resort to Amazon for that one. I'll get around to it one of these days. Masterforce in particular is a lot better than I expected. I'm glad the series were imported.
I can't imagine getting revved up by an old series like that only to know that some of the characters I'll likely never own.
O6 wrote:Well, I mean...All those variations have more in common with each other than they do differences, don't they? Then-current day setting, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Autobots, Decepticons, what-have-you.
That was why I started asking if we should separate IDW out as its similarities to the other variations are growing more dissimilar right now from those other expressions. But there are a lot of dissimilar elements in "baseline" G1 I suppose, just wondering if adding to that on its face is the right way to approach that.
Fuckin' A, right? Imagine my surprise when guys like Overlord and Skyquake started popping up in comics and stuff, and people were like, "Who even are these guys?" and I'm just like, "Overlord and Skyquake and Clench, the most awesome obscure badasses ever. How aren't you already jizzing your khakis?"
Interesting way of phrasing it, earlier I called it an "imprintable age", sexual fetishes sometimes are imprinted the same way - someone is spanked and becomes obsessed with spanking, or sees an advert with women in lycra shorts and becomes a lycra fetishist, so maybe it is the non-sexual fetish causing the "jizzing in one's khakis".
anderson wrote:MTMTE 19
Needless to say, spoilers here.
I'm ambivalent about this storyline, which we're halfway through. On the one hand, yes, it's a semi-clever fan joke to take the fact that the toy of Ultra Magnus' robot mode is a bunch of armor snapped onto a white Optimus Prime and to make a story out of that concept. So the genuine original Ultra Magnus died ages ago, and ever since then we've seen a succession of bots in Ultra Magnus armor as part of a grand ruse by Chief Justice Tyrest. All those "deaths" we saw a few issues ago were genuine as the bot wearing the Magnus armor died, and some one new took his place. Dreamwave went for the "kewl" factor when they used the inner robot in their second mini-series, while IDW goes for the big reveal and the long, convoluted, previously unknown history.
Here's why it annoys me. For one thing, it's too cute by half, and for another, it retcons the entire history of Magnus as we've seen him in IDW continuity. He's not Ultra Magnus, and never has been. It's a sham and an assumed identity. Rather than being the type of retcon that adds or explains a little history, it's the "everything you know is a lie" type of retcon, which is definitely a cheat. And I feel cheated by the story. If I were to go back and read Spotlight Ultra Magnus, or Maximum Dinobots, or Costa's ongoing, I'm going to be constantly aware that it's not really Ultra Magnus on the page, when clearly that was not the intention at the time.
Some other developments are not so objectionable. Ratchet's attempts to deal with Pharma are darkly amusing, until Ambulon gets cut in half. Tailgate gets a glimmer of hope that he might be cured, and we're close to learning the mystery of Skids. And the long-standing conflict between Cyclonus and Whirl may or may not be resolved. At the very least, they get some good action and character scenes together.
And the history of Transformers life and how it came into existence and how some aspects of it were corrupted is certainly intriguing. Not to mention essential in understanding Tyrest and his motivations and intentions.
So a mixed bag of an issue, as far as I'm concerned. Not happy about the whole Ultra Magnus storyline, but the remainder of the plot continues to intrigue. There is an excessive amount of exposition this issue, but since it's pretty interesting, it's not too bad.
Magnus seems to be your chief focus here, and on that angle I kind of understand but don't feel aggressively negative towards the issue. My big issue would be timeline concerns, when you have these flashbacks to all the great Ultra Magnus moments 2 issues ago and instead of being an inner flashback they're secretly an external editorial statement about the various times Ultra Fakesus passed on, you then open up the question of where Tyrest was during this, how he was able to get the Magnus armor back, how he was able to scout recruits, how these recruits were deemed substantive to carry the role of the character, and all within a reasonable timeframe between them, it leaves the whole thing open to a lot of questions that feel like they're probably shoehorned rather than organic. Also, Ultra Fakesus' role in the universe doesn't seem to actually jive with Tyrest's stated mission, at least not clearly. And the use of attention deflectors for internal repairs is just cheap as it gets, if you open up a body and don't see what's going on, there's no way to fix it.
BWP wrote:I mean, Optimus Prime doesn't stop being Optimus Prime once we find out that he wasn't always Optimus Prime and had to be rebuilt into Optimus Prime from Orion Pax, does he?
Therein lies the rub though, Optimus Prime's reputation isn't built on the reputation of Zeta Prime or Nova Prime, Orion Pax didn't simply pick up a costume and pretend to be a Prime the way the Ultra Fakesus folks have been doing. Minimus Ambus didn't inherit a title, he's pretending to be a greater man. I don't think it's a failing of the storytelling the way Anderson does, but it's definitely not the same thing either.
Anderson wrote:"Ultra Magnus" has been a series of different people over time, as we now know, who aren't Ultra Magnus at all.
I picture it like future versions of Batman, they inherit the outfit so those who don't know the man assume he's the original, he carries the spirit and the name so they assume he's Gotham's original mysterious and mythical crimefighter. That might be a stretch, I feel like there's already a precedent for this in comics-related genre but I cannot think of it.
Or how about "Ultra Magnus is akin to 'the Dread Pirate Roberts'"?
Let's put it this way, when I'm reading Regeneration One and see Ultra Magnus on the page, it's the genuine article. When I'm reading IDW now and see Ultra Magnus on the page, it's someone in disguise, playing a role. It isn't Ultra Magnus at all. We've never seen the genuine Ultra Magnus in all the time we've been reading IDW, thanks to this retcon. It's the equivalent of watching a movie and following a character and watching him change and grow, only to see him rip a rubber mask off halfway through the film and reveal that he's really someone else entirely. It changes everything.
But that's not always a bad thing. Look at Keyser Soze. Look at a ton of plot points in this comic that have already been turned on their ear. If we've watched Ultra Magnus grow and change and act on those things, even if that person isn't the original Ultra Magnus, we've still seen their character arc, we've still seen that person do those things. Is it unfair in a spy story to have a sleeper agent? I don't think so. Just because we know this name doesn't mean he's automatically the same man, look at IDW Galvatron.
BWP wrote:Again, the reveal of a 'secret identity' is not uncommon at all in fiction, especially not in comic books.
It's fairly rare for the audience to be left out of that loop so thoroughly.
Anderson wrote:You've missed my point. It wasn't that IDW's continuity has to or even should conform to other G1 series, it's that when I see Ultra Magnus on the page in RG1, I can be sure he actually is Ultra Magnus, not some no-name new character masquerading as the long-dead Ultra Magnus. He is who he appears to be.
So what you're saying is that in the ongoing IDW G1 universe, this character is
more than meets the eye?
Come on, this is Ultra Magnus, a fairly prominent A-lister from G1. Roberts seriously thought it would be a good idea to have him turn out to be one of his newly invented comic-only characters and not actually Ultra Magnus? Really?
Doesn't bother me all that much, Ultra Magnus is kind of a forced G1 character in my eyes, he's built up quickly to be something and then he sucks at that something vital so he's defined by how much he sucks at it. It's not like Optimus Prime turns out to be a bunch of scraplets in a costume.
BWP wrote:Not at all. All of Ambus/Magnus's character development and evolution still totally counts, only his appearance has changed and more backstory added to his character. With ProwlShell, he *appeared* to be going through a bunch of character development that was rendered null as soon as it was revealed it wasn't really him driving his own body. Magnus lost nothing with this reveal, in fact he actually gained a lot more depth and definition, in my opinion.
Ultra Magnus' behavior and record no longer stand on their own merits, his legend is bunk. I'm alright with that, but it is a change.
Sparky wrote:Going back to this part of the story... This issue answers how a counterfeit Matrix ended up in the Prime lineage, until Optimus rediscovered the real Matrix, as well as confirms Nova Prime was the last 'true' Prime to carry it before Optimus gets it. Really like that they're exploring elements of Transformers sparks here and ways they are 'born'. I doubt Tyrest's assumption the 'cold constructed' sparks are "predisposed towards sin" any more than a forged spark is. Although it is interesting he says every Autobot in the Aequitas Trials was constructed cold...
I agree with most of this, my initial reaction is that the Aequitas trial defendants are just an anomalous statistic that the now mad Tyrest has rested his actions upon to assuage his guilt.
O6 wrote:Frankly, Magnus is a character who has needed a backstory for a long fucking time. You don't get to be a Huge Badass Autobot just out of the blue like that--not if you're an important character, anyway. There are Huge Badass Autobots who are unimportant (Warpath, Roadbuster, arguably Jetfire) and there are Important Badass Autobots who have elaborate backstories to them (Impactor, Optimus Prime, Rodimus, etc.) but you don't get to be both of those while being completely unjustified. For most of his existence since 1986, Ultra Magnus has just been kind of 'there.' And he's been an important 'there,' in all of his appearances, but very rarely do we get to see *why* he's there, why he's an important Autobot, why he's got to the point that he is. I mean, he basically gets introduced in TFTM to be a fucking red herring, but then all throughout Season 3 we act like he's just been second in command of the Autobots the whole time. Animated makes him Holy God Leader of the entire Autobot faction and their Elite Guard and gives him a big honkin' hammer (and even makes him sound like Robert Stack again), but they never go into who he was before that. He's just there, and he's important.
Yes sir! Right on the money.
That was God Magnus, though; different guy, plus he did have a backstory, the whole overlooked-little-brother thing.
God Magnus is not in RID, he's in Car Robots. RID is a rewrite of that material, where he is Ultra Magnus, and when he and Optimus combine he becomes Omega Prime rather than God Fire Convoy.
