More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[Onslaught Six]

Question: has the IDW G1 continuity broken enough with the traditional G1 continuity to warrant separation of IDW continuity from "G1"?

You could write a thesis paper on this. We could sit here all day listing the similarities and differences.

The way I've always seen it is, IDW takes no more "inspiration" from G1 than it does any other iteration of the franchise does--the films, Animated, Prime, RID, Armada, whatever--and could very well stand as its own "iteration." The only thing is, most of those series are focused on being, for lack of a better term, a specific iteration. Animated is basically G1 except the main Autobots are young and stupid and everything looks wonky; Prime is G1 except everybody is CGI and some random different crap for some reason; RID is G1 except everybody is anime and using 1999 toy designs, Armada is G1 except with Minicons. What does IDW bring to the table in terms of that? Sure, it's got random superficial differences (Galvatron isn't Megatron, everybody shows up on modern Earth instead of 1984, etc.) but on the whole, at the end of the day, it's Just "Transformers"--no ifs, ands, or buts, like with Prime or Animated or RID.

I mean, out of everything, G1 is where it fits "best," but whatever.

Um, what country do you think this is, man? "Well duuuuh, it's some guy you've probably heard of at most barely once back during Energon - GOSH!"
I didn't recognize Star Saber either.

Uh, Star Saber is from Victory. (Energon had a guy with the same name, but is mostly irrelevant.) I'd recognize him. Victory is, you know, a whole cartoon series. Any TF fan worth his salt should at least know the main two leaders from it.

They do, but they're a few months behind the floppies. The late July TPB vol 4 collects to issue 16, where we just got issue 18 in floppies last week.

Of course, that's the point of the model. You want to be up to date? Gotta buy the floppies. You just want to read it and don't care about when? Wait a while.

[JediTricks]

Question: has the IDW G1 continuity broken enough with the traditional G1 continuity to warrant separation of IDW continuity from "G1"?

You could write a thesis paper on this. We could sit here all day listing the similarities and differences.

The way I've always seen it is, IDW takes no more "inspiration" from G1 than it does any other iteration of the franchise does--the films, Animated, Prime, RID, Armada, whatever--and could very well stand as its own "iteration." The only thing is, most of those series are focused on being, for lack of a better term, a specific iteration. Animated is basically G1 except the main Autobots are young and stupid and everything looks wonky; Prime is G1 except everybody is CGI and some random different crap for some reason; RID is G1 except everybody is anime and using 1999 toy designs, Armada is G1 except with Minicons. What does IDW bring to the table in terms of that? Sure, it's got random superficial differences (Galvatron isn't Megatron, everybody shows up on modern Earth instead of 1984, etc.) but on the whole, at the end of the day, it's Just "Transformers"--no ifs, ands, or buts, like with Prime or Animated or RID.

I mean, out of everything, G1 is where it fits "best," but whatever.

I agree, but my question was more about cataloging - where do we discuss these things, where do we research these things. If I created an IDW G1 forum, would that not create as many problems as it solves? Would Generations discussions get separated? It's complicated, especially thinking about how a newcomer would view it - where would they look for those conversations now, and would changing our format to fit that thinking help or harm or just waste time?

Um, what country do you think this is, man? "Well duuuuh, it's some guy you've probably heard of at most barely once back during Energon - GOSH!"
I didn't recognize Star Saber either.

Uh, Star Saber is from Victory. (Energon had a guy with the same name, but is mostly irrelevant.) I'd recognize him. Victory is, you know, a whole cartoon series. Any TF fan worth his salt should at least know the main two leaders from it.

The only reason someone like Anderson or I would have heard of Star Saber as a character is when we discussed the character of Wing Saber from Energon, that was what I was driving at. Star Saber's obvious to a select sub-group of Western TF fans who have experienced and engaged with Victory, but to the majority of Western fans he isn't recognizable in any significant way. Victory, Masterforce, Zone, BW Neo, BW 2, they all have unique content and yet they are at best a distant blip on the radar of the Western TF fan. I bet you could go into Botcon and ask 100 fans about anything Japanese other than Headmasters and you'd get confused looks in return 3/4s of the time. Those franchises and their elements are not well-known enough to treat as "obvious".

They do, but they're a few months behind the floppies. The late July TPB vol 4 collects to issue 16, where we just got issue 18 in floppies last week.

Of course, that's the point of the model. You want to be up to date? Gotta buy the floppies. You just want to read it and don't care about when? Wait a while.

Kind of stupid though since the TPBs generally cost the same as the floppies.

[Dominic]

Spotlight: Hoist, or "the book about everybody but the titular character".

I think that the gimmick here is that Hoist is reasonably well-adjusted, and is going to stick out less than the fuck-wits he is surrounded by. We remember Swerve because Swerve is an asshole. But, Hoist is forgettable, even in his own book.

Question: has the IDW G1 continuity broken enough with the traditional G1 continuity to warrant separation of IDW continuity from "G1"?

The over-all look is still G1 though. And, what would it be called? "IDW G1" is the best that I can think of. For the sake of simplicity, I would just call it "Generation 1" and keep it in the G1 forum.

Kind of stupid though since the TPBs generally cost the same as the floppies.

Compilations store and display better.


Dom....

[JediTricks]

Spotlight: Hoist, or "the book about everybody but the titular character".

I think that the gimmick here is that Hoist is reasonably well-adjusted, and is going to stick out less than the fuck-wits he is surrounded by. We remember Swerve because Swerve is an asshole. But, Hoist is forgettable, even in his own book.

You know where that would really have made sense to say then? SOMEWHERE ELSE! Hoist shouldn't be forgettable in his own book, he should be forgettable when he's lifting Red Alert's comatose ass out of the tanks on the Lost Light... where he was totally forgettable.

Question: has the IDW G1 continuity broken enough with the traditional G1 continuity to warrant separation of IDW continuity from "G1"?

The over-all look is still G1 though. And, what would it be called? "IDW G1" is the best that I can think of. For the sake of simplicity, I would just call it "Generation 1" and keep it in the G1 forum.

It looks like the wiki calls it that, so I suppose we can do better. I guess if we cover G2 and Headmasters and weird Japanese stuff here, we can cover IDW here still.

Kind of stupid though since the TPBs generally cost the same as the floppies.

Compilations store and display better.

Sure, but you end up left out of the ongoing conversation for months at a time.

[BWprowl]

It looks like the wiki calls it that, so I suppose we can do better. I guess if we cover G2 and Headmasters and weird Japanese stuff here, we can cover IDW here still.

That's a point: IDW G1 has about the same amount in common as Marvel Comics G1, Sunbow Cartoon G1, Dreamwave G1, and package-bio G1 have with each other, so I don't know that it's so far off that it would have to be considered 'something else' anyway.

What's the 'baseline' G1 that these things get compared to, anyway? The cartoon? The original tech specs? How much does a given 'G1' series have to have in common with that 'baseline' to be really be considered a 'G1' series?

Sure, but you end up left out of the ongoing conversation for months at a time.

Yeah, but if you don't have any friends to talk about these things with, it doesn't matter!

[JediTricks]

It looks like the wiki calls it that, so I suppose we can do better. I guess if we cover G2 and Headmasters and weird Japanese stuff here, we can cover IDW here still.

That's a point: IDW G1 has about the same amount in common as Marvel Comics G1, Sunbow Cartoon G1, Dreamwave G1, and package-bio G1 have with each other, so I don't know that it's so far off that it would have to be considered 'something else' anyway.

What's the 'baseline' G1 that these things get compared to, anyway? The cartoon? The original tech specs? How much does a given 'G1' series have to have in common with that 'baseline' to be really be considered a 'G1' series?

That's an interesting question, I've always assumed it's an amalgamation of the Hasbro bio cards, Sunbow cartoon, and Marvel comics since those all contradict each other at times but came out at the same time as each other and were all equally licensed content. If that's the case, it's a shitty baseline as it's wildly unclear and contradictory, so its chief benefit seems to be that it claims the rite to yell "first!".

Sure, but you end up left out of the ongoing conversation for months at a time.

Yeah, but if you don't have any friends to talk about these things with, it doesn't matter!

Ouch! Comics should be social, damnit, poor lonely Transformers readers.

[andersonh1]

That's a point: IDW G1 has about the same amount in common as Marvel Comics G1, Sunbow Cartoon G1, Dreamwave G1, and package-bio G1 have with each other, so I don't know that it's so far off that it would have to be considered 'something else' anyway.

What's the 'baseline' G1 that these things get compared to, anyway? The cartoon? The original tech specs? How much does a given 'G1' series have to have in common with that 'baseline' to be really be considered a 'G1' series?

I was thinking this same thing. Even if IDW is a variant continuity, it's still using G1 characters (mostly), not RID, AEC, Animated or Prime. And it's hardly the first alternate G1 continuity. We had Sunbow, Tech Spec and Marvel running all at the same time during the original G1 years. IDW just adds another one to the mix. I'd leave it right where it is.

The only reason someone like Anderson or I would have heard of Star Saber as a character is when we discussed the character of Wing Saber from Energon, that was what I was driving at. Star Saber's obvious to a select sub-group of Western TF fans who have experienced and engaged with Victory, but to the majority of Western fans he isn't recognizable in any significant way. Victory, Masterforce, Zone, BW Neo, BW 2, they all have unique content and yet they are at best a distant blip on the radar of the Western TF fan. I bet you could go into Botcon and ask 100 fans about anything Japanese other than Headmasters and you'd get confused looks in return 3/4s of the time. Those franchises and their elements are not well-known enough to treat as "obvious".

Yep. I know the name "Star Saber" and know he's from Victory, but obviously I don't even recognize him on the printed page despite that limited knowledge. Out of the series you list, I've seen Headmasters and Masterforce. All the other Japanese series are largely unfamiliar to me. I do own Lio Convoy from one of the BW series, so I'd know him if he turned up.

I keep meaning to get Shout Factory's version Victory on DVD. One of these days I'll get around to it.

[BWprowl]

The only reason someone like Anderson or I would have heard of Star Saber as a character is when we discussed the character of Wing Saber from Energon, that was what I was driving at. Star Saber's obvious to a select sub-group of Western TF fans who have experienced and engaged with Victory, but to the majority of Western fans he isn't recognizable in any significant way. Victory, Masterforce, Zone, BW Neo, BW 2, they all have unique content and yet they are at best a distant blip on the radar of the Western TF fan. I bet you could go into Botcon and ask 100 fans about anything Japanese other than Headmasters and you'd get confused looks in return 3/4s of the time. Those franchises and their elements are not well-known enough to treat as "obvious".

Yep. I know the name "Star Saber" and know he's from Victory, but obviously I don't even recognize him on the printed page despite that limited knowledge. Out of the series you list, I've seen Headmasters and Masterforce. All the other Japanese series are largely unfamiliar to me. I do own Lio Convoy from one of the BW series, so I'd know him if he turned up.

I keep meaning to get Shout Factory's version Victory on DVD. One of these days I'll get around to it.

Sorry, sometimes I forget that the way I stormed through archives of information on the various Japanese G1 series back when I was a kid because I had already read up on all the other Transformers and I STILL NEEDED MORE wasn't something everyone else went through. There's also that Takara went through a phase where they kept making toys of the guy in the late 90's/early 2000's, with a PVC, an SCF, and the Robot Masters figure, so I saw those toys and reviews of them getting a decent amount of press; Star Saber just seemed kind of unavoidable for a while.

Reminds me of how a couple years back we had people who somehow weren't familiar with the Beast Wars Neo guys. I spent my middle-school computer lab downtime looking at low-res package scans of Japanese BW toys I searched for on Dogpile, what were YOU guys doing?

[JediTricks]

Yep. I know the name "Star Saber" and know he's from Victory, but obviously I don't even recognize him on the printed page despite that limited knowledge. Out of the series you list, I've seen Headmasters and Masterforce. All the other Japanese series are largely unfamiliar to me. I do own Lio Convoy from one of the BW series, so I'd know him if he turned up.

Yeah, I didn't recognize him on the page at all, not even remotely, I figured it was someone I didn't know and just moved on.

Did you get Lio Convoy from Hasbro's brief stint selling exclusives direct? That's how I got him.

I've never seen Headmasters or Masterforce, so you are two up on me.

Sorry, sometimes I forget that the way I stormed through archives of information on the various Japanese G1 series back when I was a kid because I had already read up on all the other Transformers and I STILL NEEDED MORE wasn't something everyone else went through. There's also that Takara went through a phase where they kept making toys of the guy in the late 90's/early 2000's, with a PVC, an SCF, and the Robot Masters figure, so I saw those toys and reviews of them getting a decent amount of press; Star Saber just seemed kind of unavoidable for a while.

Most of us didn't have access to those things, that is the only difference. Oh, and the language/societal barrier.

Reminds me of how a couple years back we had people who somehow weren't familiar with the Beast Wars Neo guys. I spent my middle-school computer lab downtime looking at low-res package scans of Japanese BW toys I searched for on Dogpile, what were YOU guys doing?

Uhhh, not that.

[Shockwave]

Yeah, I'm largely unfamiliar with the Japanese series as well so I didn't recognize Star Saber either. The only Japanese series I've seen is Headmasters and that's only because I had the Shout Factory dvds. I'm still mostly unfamiliar with BW Neo and II although I am aware they exist.