Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Onslaught Six
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

JediTricks wrote:It amazes me what you guys can talk yourselves into believing. Go dig into your deluxes from the last 29 years and tell me there's not a consistent scale and quality that's dropped to shit since 2011. Compare a UT deluxe to a BW deluxe to a G1, then compare that to DOTM and TFP and Generations 2.0 in-hand, put them all side by side.
Sure you wanna play this game? Because you kinda got rammed in the ass when you were saying Legends Abominus would be tiny, and then Prowl posted a side-by-side of Sinnertwin and Twinstrike...and they were they same size.

(That sounds more like an attack than it's supposed to be! I swear I meant it in good fun.)
the head sculpt is...soft;
This is the second time I've seen you say this about his headsculpt; what do you mean? I don't understand.
Grade is D+ / C-, would be a even lower were it not for just enough poseability and personality in bot mode - not tons either, just enough to get by to a weak pass in my book. The sliding grade given is dependent on how much you like Grimlock and / or Fall of Cybertron.
I see this doesn't take into account the figure's size, either. He looks pretty damn good on that front--the only other better one I can think of is Masterpiece Grimlock, and $22-25 is a lot easier to swallow than $225. ClaGrims being as small as he is is a large part of why I sold him recently.
Other things that are pleasing:
What else is kind of pleasing is how much of him is on different sprues--compare either Soundwave colour to Blaster and see how different Blaster really is.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by BWprowl »

Onslaught Six wrote:Sure you wanna play this game? Because you kinda got rammed in the ass when you were saying Legends Abominus would be tiny, and then Prowl posted a side-by-side of Sinnertwin and Twinstrike...and they were they same size.
To be fair, I was actually comparing Twinstrike to Cutthroat, and then I still admitted that BH Abominus would still end up smaller due to Hun-Grr's reduced size class.

That said, I actually have a decent smattering of TFs from across several generations at hand thanks to pulling crap out of my parents' shed recently, maybe I will take pictures of a bunch of those guys standing next to each other! I stand by my assertion that the Deluxe size class used to be closer to the toys we're getting now, and that things got abnormally huge during ROTF/Generations. BW Deluxes are pretty modest, and RiD 'Deluxes' are tiny.

Yup, gonna make that a project when I get home.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by JediTricks »

It struck me last night, but FOC Grimlock is like one of those gumball machine toy cars, the ones that are almost entirely hollow and have cut-outs for windows and clipped-on axles with wheels molded to them. FOC Grimlock is like that, from the front he looks like Grimlock, but from any other angle you start to see how hollow parts are, and the more you use him and the more you see him from other angles, the more hollow cheapness you come across until you realize that without his dino head shoved into his back, he's really not anything at all.
Onslaught Six wrote:Sure you wanna play this game? Because you kinda got rammed in the ass when you were saying Legends Abominus would be tiny, and then Prowl posted a side-by-side of Sinnertwin and Twinstrike...and they were they same size.
They were the same HEIGHT, not the same SIZE. It didn't take into account the lack of mass, and the fact that Sinnertwin uses merge parts not shown.
(That sounds more like an attack than it's supposed to be! I swear I meant it in good fun.)
Better keep working on that then.
the head sculpt is...soft;
This is the second time I've seen you say this about his headsculpt; what do you mean? I don't understand.
A sculpt can be rendered sharply or softly, the crispness of the lines sculpted into a design is what I'm talking about. Compare... let's see... compare the sculpting sharpness on movie 1 Leader-class Optimus to ROTF Leader-class Optimus, the former is a soft sculpt while the latter is a sharp sculpt, check out the headshots here:
http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/Optimu ... sprime.htm
http://www.tfu.info/2009/Autobot/Optimu ... sprime.htm
on the latter, vents are deeper, details are crisper.

For Grimlock, see all the sculpting sharpness on the Masterpiece, all the sharp corners and fine details that show?
http://www.tfu.info/2010/Autobot/Master ... imlock.htm
Now imagine the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT:
http://tfviews.com/grimlock-head.jpg
(and my cellphone's flash shot there actually is pretty generous compared to how it looks in-hand)

LMK if that isn't clear enough.
Grade is D+ / C-, would be a even lower were it not for just enough poseability and personality in bot mode - not tons either, just enough to get by to a weak pass in my book. The sliding grade given is dependent on how much you like Grimlock and / or Fall of Cybertron.
I see this doesn't take into account the figure's size, either. He looks pretty damn good on that front--the only other better one I can think of is Masterpiece Grimlock, and $22-25 is a lot easier to swallow than $225. ClaGrims being as small as he is is a large part of why I sold him recently.
I'm judging the figure on its own merits, but its size comes at a huge cost of being very hollow. What grade did you give Animated Grimlock? He was also a Voyager Class, does he get props for not being a deluxe when you would have paid Voyager price?
What else is kind of pleasing is how much of him is on different sprues--compare either Soundwave colour to Blaster and see how different Blaster really is.
What? Oh, no, I was reviewing Soundblaster, not "Blaster" Blaster. Soundblaster is a direct swap of charcoal for blue from Soundwave, every part matches identically, they even seem to use the same paint masks. As for "Blaster" Blaster, it does look in photos like the lower legs and back panel ABS is via different channels from the rest (except the black on the weapon and hands and middle arms, that's an easy swap because it's PVC instead of ABS so it's already a different channel), so it's really only 2 ABS channels: gray and red. They get by with that single alternate sprue channel and clever use of the mixing it up the other parts.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

I haven't slept so I'm not up to debating in full, here.

Animated Grimlock sucked because of his simplistic transformation and details, and his entirely useless weapon in dino mode. I felt ripped off.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by JediTricks »

Onslaught Six wrote:I haven't slept so I'm not up to debating in full, here.

Animated Grimlock sucked because of his simplistic transformation and details, and his entirely useless weapon in dino mode. I felt ripped off.
I'm not actually looking for a debate, just wanted to see if my point was clear enough - you can disagree with my point once you understand it and that's fine, I just want to make sure you understand it first.

FOC Grimlock in my book suffers similar problems - simplistic transformation, simplistic details due to soft headsculpt and hollow parts, problematic dino mode, and frustrating articulation. And like Animated Grimlock who also has a hollow underside I believe, sure it's larger than a deluxe, but at what cost? I'm not giving FOC Grimlock a fail, but that doesn't mean he gets an A+ either.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

We'll see how I feel when I get him, then, I guess.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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"Fall of Cybertron" Soundwave and disks

Post by Dominic »

I am going to treat this as one review, if only because both sets of disks clearly compliment Soundwave and, to be blunt about it, the disk minions are not really worth their own review.

Soundwave (a Voyager class toy) is priced at ~23 USD, making Voyagers a mere 5 or so US dollars more expensive than (much smaller)deluxes. The $10 USD for the disk two-packs "feels" wrong, but with current toy pricing, it is actually about right given the number of moving parts and springs that the figures have.

The package art is drawn from the "Fall of Cybertron" game. While there is nothing inherently wrong with this, makes just how off-model the toys are from the media all too obvious. Ratbat or Ravage are arguably the most visibly different, but there are visible differences between all of the toys and their respective character models.


Soundwave:
I have heard accounts of dodgy quality control (itself not unusual for Hasbro in the last 2 or 3 years), but my own copy of Soundwave seems to be free of the worst defects (loose limbs and such). The biggest single problem is the disk-deploying gimmick. The disks fit *very* snuggly in the compartment, and the last disk is as likely to get stuck as it is to pop out. However, this defect is so commonly reported that I am guessing it may well be an issue with the toy having a faulty design rather than a quality control issue.

(Similarly, the disk-cases included with the two pack are also tight fights for the included figures, abeit not as troublesome. Most likely, Hasbro erred on the side of having the disks fit too tightly than having them fit too loosely and partially transforming inside of Soundwave or the cases.)

The robot mode feels anachronistic. Besides being off model to both the videogame and the comics, the main body looks like it was designed ~10 years ago. The upper torso is bulky by necessity of accomodating the disk-storage/launching gimmick. But, that combined with Soundwave's traditional blockiness creates the impression that "Fall of Cybertron" Soundwave is a much older. Soundwave's hips are overly segmented, even without the unfortunately use of visible thigh-swivels. It simply does not look right for a toy designed in 2012.

The vehicle mode is deceptively solid-looking. It looks like an armoured truck that would be used to carry sensitive information or goods.
Unfortunately, it does not hold together as well as its appearance might imply, with the top panels and front "fender-teeth" being especially ill-fitted/loose (at least on my copy). There appears to be a seat moulded to the top of the vehicle mode. Assuming that this is in fact a seat, it is a wasted feature given that there are no current TF figures that can ride in it. (I am given to understand that old Diaclone driver figures can fit in the seat. And, "Armada" Ramjet might also fit. I eye-balled a couple of PCC Minicons, and none of those even look like they might even sort of fit.)

The disk-ejection gimmick works better in theory than it does in practice. Unless the disks are inserted perfectly, they catch and jam against the sides of the chamber. (And, given that none of the disks have a wholly cohesive surface area, lining them up perfectly is next to impossible.)

One of the other glaring weaknesses of "Fall of Cybertron" Soundwave is the weapons. The back of the package depicts the figure as having two guns, the cylindrical gun included with the figure and a gun that looks to be cast from the same mould as G1 Optimus Prime's rifle. The rifle is missing. (Once again, I will be turning to the remnants of my childhood G1 collection for parts.) The cylindrical gun is terrible, not being fully moulded all the way around, effectively making it worse than the origional (1984) Soundwave's guns despite being released nearly 30 years later.

Some people have complained about the size of the figure being too much out of scale with other "War for Cybertron" and "Fall of Cybertron" figures. But, it is really no worse in this regard than other TF figures. And, 2010 Bumblebee is billed as being a courier, while Soundwave is billed as having all manner of communications, transmission and data storage mechanisms. It makes sense that he would be larger than other Transformers. (If anything, the 2010 Soundwave mould, among others, would be under-sized.)

The included Laserbeak transforms from a (ridiculously thick) "data-disk" to something resembling a bird with no feet. The single-step transformation involves dropping the disk on to a hard and flat surface to trigger a spring loaded gimmick. Over-all, it looks like Hasbro was intending to tap the Bakugan market when they designed the disks. (This may actually have the unintended consequence of encouraging Bakugan sales.) Laserbeak is just off model enough to be bothersome, but the figure is clearly inspired by the game and shares a significant number of visual cues with Laserbeak as depicted in IDW's current comics. In addition to an ill-concieved transformation,
Laserbeak is also very much under-painted. (It helps to see the "data-disk" form as some kind of removable or external storage. But, that is clearly not the intention of the toy's designers.)

Soundwave is a better than (recent) average figure, but is still far below what a company like Hasbro should be releasing.

Grade: B/C



Frenzy/Ratbat:
The disks are a potentially interesting idea, but are too dominated by an a single gimmick. The best possible outcome in this case is that the single gimmick will be well executed. Unfortunately, that is not the case here.

Despite being more or less built around an auto-transforming gimmick that leaves only two significant points of articulation (the shoulders), Frenzy does not fully transform after being sprung, which pretty well undermines the "single step transformation" concept. Ratbat is mechanically identical to Laserbeak despite being cast from mostly different tooling. (The bat's head and all of the disk/shell pieces are cast from different moulding than Laserbeak.)

Side note: Frenzy is moulded in red plastic.

The two packs include disk-cases, which is why I bought this set. (I am not sure how good an idea it is to store the spring loaded disk figures in disk mode for the long term as this may warp the spring and damage the auto-transforming mechanisms.)

Grade: D


Rumble/Ravage: (in package review only)
Rumble is a straight recolour of Frenzy, moulded in blue plastic. Ravage is just awful. Besides arguably being more off-model than Ratbat, Ravage is easily the worst engineered disk figure. Despite the all-dominating auto-transform gimmick, Ravage still has as many steps as some Legends figures. And, the comprehensive failures of engineering are not at all balanced out by aesthetic benefits.

Grade: F



On a wholly personal note, I really like the idea of Soundwave rolling around in vehicle mode carrying Ratbat. Given how Ratbat is currently depicted as being a corrupt official, and that Soundwave's 2010 profile depicts him as being a rolling Faraday cage, I cannot but be amused by the idea of Soundwave capturing Ratbat (similar to what was shown in "Megatron Origins") and seizing Ratbat as both a suspect and evidence in a corruption case.

This portrayal of Ratbat is consistent across "Aligned" (which the "Fall of Cybertron" game and the "Exodus" novel are branded as being part of), IDW's G1 and the character profile on the back of the package.


Dom
-pretty sure that this is one of the few official examples of FIRRIB in the US
since the old Sunbow cartoon series.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by JediTricks »

The disks sticking is both a flaw and an intentional design, the opening has friction bumps around it which catch the disks more that the rest of the tube, and they catch on the parts of the disk which are flexible (since the face of the disk is made up of a bunch of hinged robot parts), that's the intentional part. The flaw is that the plunger system doesn't attach to the plunger plate at the center but near its top, so the top half has more leverage than the bottom, leading to sticking (there's a second, lesser flaw where using hinge upon hinge for the plunger system has too much play, but that can be overcome via straightening the plunger hinges). The clearance tolerance of each disk character design is different from another, so Laserbeak/Buzzsaw ejects with the least effort while Ravage/Steeljaw requires the most because that design is ever so slightly wider - you'll find that Frumble pops into his case slightly easier than Ravage does.


I think the "front teeth" of alt mode stick better depending on how you angle the cassette door into the shell covering the head. That area doesn't work on Blaster as well because his cassette door is designed without as much care and so it does flop, but on Soundblaster it holds nicely if you angle it into that area. The only top panel that should be loose is the one with the weapon and seat, and that's because it has to slide forward as part of the plunger system - I hear ya on that though, but it has become less of an issue as I keep transforming it - either I'm less bothered with it or it's working itself out.


I can't believe you bought Ratbat and Renzy. If the springs warp from being left cocked, then Hasbro owes money, a spring should be designed to take that tolerance.


Apparently Frenzy is Blue is found in statues as well.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by Tigermegatron »

I was thinking about buying those 2013 Generations disk-casettes/minions. But I decided to get the Hasbro TRU MP Soundwave with the 5 MP Cassettes/minions instead.

I do find those Generations 2013 Disk/minions interesting & funny at the same time,As they look like Hockey pucks in Disk mode.

Since,I bought Generations 2013 Soundwave & Blaster,I do own two disk bots,this is enough for me.
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Re: Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

Post by Shockwave »

Tigermegatron wrote:I was thinking about buying those 2013 Generations disk-casettes/minions. But I decided to get the Hasbro TRU MP Soundwave with the 5 MP Cassettes/minions instead.

I do find those Generations 2013 Disk/minions interesting & funny at the same time,As they look like Hockey pucks in Disk mode.

Since,I bought Generations 2013 Soundwave & Blaster,I do own two disk bots,this is enough for me.
I'm with you on this one. With the MP release being announced, if I'm gonna get a Soundwave with minions, I'll just wait for that one. The disk bots didn't really look at all appealing to me. They have the legends scale, but none of the charm nor enginuity. It seems like Hasbro worked too hard on the autotransform gimmick and they suffer as figures as a result.
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