Universe2.0/Generations Review Thread

[Dominic]

Hasbro released one of the custom class figures later, the 2008 Overkill. But, that was part of a line intended for the Pacific market and only saw US release at liquidator stores.


Dom

[JediTricks]

Hasbro released one of the custom class figures later, the 2008 Overkill. But, that was part of a line intended for the Pacific market and only saw US release at liquidator stores.

It also saw US release via HasbroToyShop.com which is how they ended up not selling and going to liquidators, but it wasn't a piece folks were as excited about. It's odd that Hasbro doesn't quite understand what items will appeal to US collectors in what amounts.

[BWprowl]

Hasbro released one of the custom class figures later, the 2008 Overkill. But, that was part of a line intended for the Pacific market and only saw US release at liquidator stores.


Dom

To be fair, Universe Overkill is a rather different toy from BotCon Overkill, it's not like it was a case of the actual custom class toy being released to the general public. It's similar to BotCon Thundercracker versus Generations Thundercracker: Same concept, different toys/releases.

[andersonh1]

I haven't been paying all that much attention to Transformers figures lately, other than to note that the price continues to go up. So it was with some surprise that I noted Fall of Cybertron Ultra Magnus on the peg today at Wal-Mart, and saw how tiny the figure really is. This guy can't be much larger than the old basic/scout class. At the very least, it's probably somewhere in between basic and deluxes, or at least the size that deluxe class used to be. But for a deluxe class figure, it's very small.

I wonder how much longer Transformers can remain a viable product if the prices keep going up for smaller and smaller products. Has designing a complex line like Transformers become cost-prohibitive at this point? Is Hasbro compensating for the lack of interest and presumably lower sales of DOTM?

It kind of makes me glad that the Alternators line ended when it did. There's no way we'd get figures like those for $20 now.

[BWprowl]

I haven't been paying all that much attention to Transformers figures lately, other than to note that the price continues to go up. So it was with some surprise that I noted Fall of Cybertron Ultra Magnus on the peg today at Wal-Mart, and saw how tiny the figure really is. This guy can't be much larger than the old basic/scout class. At the very least, it's probably somewhere in between basic and deluxes, or at least the size that deluxe class used to be. But for a deluxe class figure, it's very small.

I wonder how much longer Transformers can remain a viable product if the prices keep going up for smaller and smaller products. Has designing a complex line like Transformers become cost-prohibitive at this point? Is Hasbro compensating for the lack of interest and presumably lower sales of DOTM?

It kind of makes me glad that the Alternators line ended when it did. There's no way we'd get figures like those for $20 now.

Yeah, look at Alternators’s successor line, Alternity. They’re Deluxe-sized, and go for well over twice what the Alternators/Binaltech stuff did in Japan.

It’s true that the FoC Prime mold is rather small, but it’s worth noting that that toy is just a smaller Deluxe in general; turned out that way for whatever reason (You get toys like this sometimes. I pulled out TMII Jawbreaker a while back and was shocked to recall how short that toy is in robot mode.). Shockwave and Jazz, while definitely not as abnormally huge as the Deluxes we got in Generations/RTS, swing much closer to ‘regular Deluxe’ size.

I do have to question why this price hike is happening *just now*, and so drastically. Deluxes were $10 for over 15 years, that’s pretty much unheard of in any economic situation, especially for a ‘luxury’ item, and as complex as later Deluxes wound up getting. I understand that Hasbro obviously couldn’t sell the same level of toys at the same dollar amount forever, but why now all of a sudden is the price jumping to $14, then $16, and now $18 in some places? (Deluxes still hover around the $15-16 level in my area, which is just barely enough for me to pull the trigger on the ones I want). It makes me wonder how much of a hit Hasbro was taking on the Generations/RTS stuff that this inevitable response to inflation and the market in general was finally deemed necessary.

[Onslaught Six]

Hasbro prices went up across the board a while ago--MU, Avengers, and GI Joe are all at $10 now, and before that, GI Joe was $8 at best. (Yet they can sell those awesome Dollar General Joe figures for $6 each. Weird.)

But yeah, having recently gone back to try and complete RID, I am now thinking slowly of just how tiny most of those toys actually were. I remember major complaints about Wedge (who, let's face it, was shoehorned up to Deluxe class but was too big for a Basic back then) and that the Trains were too small to be Megas as well--but at the same time, the Deluxes we 'were' getting weren't exactly enormous either. And shit, we've always had a great variety of sizes--look at Cybertron Hot Shot and Cybertron Red Alert. Red Alert is 'short as hell,' but that's because he's bulky and shit.

[BWprowl]

But yeah, having recently gone back to try and complete RID, I am now thinking slowly of just how tiny most of those toys actually were. I remember major complaints about Wedge (who, let's face it, was shoehorned up to Deluxe class but was too big for a Basic back then) and that the Trains were too small to be Megas as well--but at the same time, the Deluxes we 'were' getting weren't exactly enormous either. And shit, we've always had a great variety of sizes--look at Cybertron Hot Shot and Cybertron Red Alert. Red Alert is 'short as hell,' but that's because he's bulky and shit.

Well, a lot of RiD’s screwiness was caused due to Hasbro importing a line that had been developed for Japan’s much more flexible price point system, rather than the more rigid setup they had over here. That’s one reason the Basic price got chopped back to five bucks, since Hasbro knew there was no way they could get away with selling the Combaticon limbs or two-packs of Spychangers for $7 (those Generations data disc guys are going 10 bucks for 2 now, though, so hey). You’re totally right about the ‘Deluxes’ from that line though, have you actually compared the Cario Bros. to more modern toys? They’re just as ‘tiny’ as the current Generations figures!

Armada saw Deluxes get larger, but they were also greatly simplified from what came before. Energon’s Deluxes were technically more complex, though arguably not as good toys (the line-wide gimmick really compromised the Autobots on that one, ambitious as it was. A whole faction of quad-changers? Who thought that would be viable? It’s kind of amazing that it worked at all, regardless of how well.). Cybertron definitely felt more thorough and well-realized, with a great variety of size and complexity across the whole line. The Movie and later Universe 2.0 was where Deluxes started to really get bigger and more complicated, probably as a favorable result of all the dosh Hasbro was rolling in from the success of the first movie.

The drop-off from that, actually, might be why we’re seeing a decrease in the ‘level’ of toys now. I don’t think Transformers, as a franchise, can ever reach the level of success and sales that the first movie gave it. We’re talking about a toyline that was so popular that lots of people *literally could not find any in stores*!! That’s crazy enough when it happens to a particular toy, but for an entire line? Completely unfathomable.

I’d kill for another line like Cybertron.

[Tigermegatron]

But yeah, having recently gone back to try and complete RID, I am now thinking slowly of just how tiny most of those toys actually were. I remember major complaints about Wedge (who, let's face it, was shoehorned up to Deluxe class but was too big for a Basic back then) and that the Trains were too small to be Megas as well--but at the same time, the Deluxes we 'were' getting weren't exactly enormous either. And shit, we've always had a great variety of sizes--look at Cybertron Hot Shot and Cybertron Red Alert. Red Alert is 'short as hell,' but that's because he's bulky and shit.

Well, a lot of RiD’s screwiness was caused due to Hasbro importing a line that had been developed for Japan’s much more flexible price point system, rather than the more rigid setup they had over here. That’s one reason the Basic price got chopped back to five bucks, since Hasbro knew there was no way they could get away with selling the Combaticon limbs or two-packs of Spychangers for $7 (those Generations data disc guys are going 10 bucks for 2 now, though, so hey). You’re totally right about the ‘Deluxes’ from that line though, have you actually compared the Cario Bros. to more modern toys? They’re just as ‘tiny’ as the current Generations figures!

Armada saw Deluxes get larger, but they were also greatly simplified from what came before. Energon’s Deluxes were technically more complex, though arguably not as good toys (the line-wide gimmick really compromised the Autobots on that one, ambitious as it was. A whole faction of quad-changers? Who thought that would be viable? It’s kind of amazing that it worked at all, regardless of how well.). Cybertron definitely felt more thorough and well-realized, with a great variety of size and complexity across the whole line. The Movie and later Universe 2.0 was where Deluxes started to really get bigger and more complicated, probably as a favorable result of all the dosh Hasbro was rolling in from the success of the first movie.

The drop-off from that, actually, might be why we’re seeing a decrease in the ‘level’ of toys now. I don’t think Transformers, as a franchise, can ever reach the level of success and sales that the first movie gave it. We’re talking about a toyline that was so popular that lots of people *literally could not find any in stores*!! That’s crazy enough when it happens to a particular toy, but for an entire line? Completely unfathomable.

I’d kill for another line like Cybertron.

The only Car robots/Rid toys I like are as follows: Super sized Fire Convoy/optimus,Super sized God/Ultra Magnus,Gigatron/Megatron & JRX/Rail racer.

Personally,If your gonna pick up the following CR/Rid toys then get the following versions. The Takara version Of Fire Convoy is the best due to it's metalic deep red paint. The Sam's Club dark grey & dark blue Super sized Ultra magnus looks the best in colors. Botcon Deathsauras or mix & match parts from gigatron & devil gigatron to create a superior colored version. HASBRO REALLY RUINED THE THREE MEGA SIZED TRAIN BOTS,DUE TO HASBRO NOT USING CLEAR PLASTIC ON THE TOYS & PAINTING THE WINDOWS IN SUPER CHEAP/AWFUL COLORS. I'D SUGGEST GETTING THE SUPERIOR DONE JRX TRAIN BOTS IN THE GIFT SET VERSION. GET THE SONO KONG VERSION & IT STILL ONLY COST UNDER $45. For CR/RID Black Convoy/Scourge get either the Hasbro TRU version or the Sono Kong version. The Takara Japan version used pink clear plastic on the truck cab windows,the sono kong version used the same clear red plastic that the hasbro version used.

Sorry,I can't reccomend getting any other CR/Rid toys as I didn't like them. The Four Construction bots build team were pure awful in individual & gestalt modes. the Three deluxe cars brothers toys were cheap,weak & kinda on the skinny female sculpted side. I don't collect super tiny TF toys like legends basics & so forth.

If you don't have a Brave Max toy yet & want one,wait for the Takara re-issue of Fort Max or wait a bit longer for the eventual re-tool/repaint called re-issue Masterforce Grand Max with all the extra accessories.

[Onslaught Six]

But yeah, having recently gone back to try and complete RID, I am now thinking slowly of just how tiny most of those toys actually were. I remember major complaints about Wedge (who, let's face it, was shoehorned up to Deluxe class but was too big for a Basic back then) and that the Trains were too small to be Megas as well--but at the same time, the Deluxes we 'were' getting weren't exactly enormous either. And shit, we've always had a great variety of sizes--look at Cybertron Hot Shot and Cybertron Red Alert. Red Alert is 'short as hell,' but that's because he's bulky and shit.

Well, a lot of RiD’s screwiness was caused due to Hasbro importing a line that had been developed for Japan’s much more flexible price point system, rather than the more rigid setup they had over here. That’s one reason the Basic price got chopped back to five bucks, since Hasbro knew there was no way they could get away with selling the Combaticon limbs or two-packs of Spychangers for $7 (those Generations data disc guys are going 10 bucks for 2 now, though, so hey). You’re totally right about the ‘Deluxes’ from that line though, have you actually compared the Cario Bros. to more modern toys? They’re just as ‘tiny’ as the current Generations figures!

Armada saw Deluxes get larger, but they were also greatly simplified from what came before. Energon’s Deluxes were technically more complex, though arguably not as good toys (the line-wide gimmick really compromised the Autobots on that one, ambitious as it was. A whole faction of quad-changers? Who thought that would be viable? It’s kind of amazing that it worked at all, regardless of how well.). Cybertron definitely felt more thorough and well-realized, with a great variety of size and complexity across the whole line. The Movie and later Universe 2.0 was where Deluxes started to really get bigger and more complicated, probably as a favorable result of all the dosh Hasbro was rolling in from the success of the first movie.

The drop-off from that, actually, might be why we’re seeing a decrease in the ‘level’ of toys now. I don’t think Transformers, as a franchise, can ever reach the level of success and sales that the first movie gave it. We’re talking about a toyline that was so popular that lots of people *literally could not find any in stores*!! That’s crazy enough when it happens to a particular toy, but for an entire line? Completely unfathomable.

I’d kill for another line like Cybertron.

Bingo. It's an interesting thing, the way everyone is flipping out about it (myself included--though not nearly as bad as some others are doing), compared to the actual way things were. Deluxes have ebbed and flowed here and there forever, and I think a large amount of it is due to the flexible nature of corporate budgets. The 2007 movie may have been a financial success, but we didn't see the "fallout" from it until later on. Even then, there were strange budget cuts as early as ROTF. (I actually don't doubt that ROTF was developed with a larger budget in mind, and perhaps was cut when Universe 2.0 and Animated didn't sell as well as they hoped.)

When you think about it, it's amazing that TF can still run effectively when it's spread as "thin" as it is right now. Stuff that almost certainly can be attributed to the main design team (and thus, its budget) is Prime and Generations. Then we have Botshots, which might be them too, a Kreo. And on top of that, there's the entire Cyberverse subline which is probably 'eating' design dollars at this point.

[JediTricks]

It amazes me what you guys can talk yourselves into believing. Go dig into your deluxes from the last 29 years and tell me there's not a consistent scale and quality that's dropped to shit since 2011. Compare a UT deluxe to a BW deluxe to a G1, then compare that to DOTM and TFP and Generations 2.0 in-hand, put them all side by side.


Anyway, I'm here to review the 3 new sets I picked up recently, but I guess I haven't commented here on FOC Starscream so I'll say that he's ok if you can find one without a seized left knee the way my first was (broke without any resistance, horrible design on the outer part), he's small and a little simplistic in sculpt and design, but works for the most part and has a great face design, taken straight from the game.

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FOC Grimlock got here from Amazon and it turns out this is an awful figure. Even the robot mode, which is the only thing this figure can say in its favor, the head sculpt is horribly simple and soft; the shoulders are hollow and awkward and entirely incapable of not folding in on themselves when used; the arms are stubby; the feet are drastically hollow and the knees awkward and more likely to de-transform than to actually bend. It's like they put all their money into this figure's light feature and deco, oddly, which is pretty good (if you can handle the barely-gold plastic look, and that the dino sports an Autobot logo on the dome while the bot sports a Lightning Strike Coalition sigil on the chest), but not so good that it makes up for the awfulness that is this figure's lackluster quality. The light feature of course shines through the plastic of the head and chest, and the dino jaw for some reason doesn't open much despite the light being ridiculously simple. The light feature does look good in dino mode if you can ignore the simplistic sculpt and light showing through. The dino mode in general, oh man it's bad, the hollow underside of the figure, the immobile hips, the oversized and immobile tail, and they didn't even bother covering the underside with the sword and shield - instead leaving them to just plug into the hips looking terrible. So very sad.

Grade is D+ / C-, would be a even lower were it not for just enough poseability and personality in bot mode - not tons either, just enough to get by to a weak pass in my book. The sliding grade given is dependent on how much you like Grimlock and / or Fall of Cybertron.

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Found a lone FOC Soundblaster at Target the other night and picked it up. Not a bad figure at all, I was really worried after Grimlock missed a lot of crucial tests, but the Soundblaster mold is solid, mostly well thought out (the lack of a friction stop on the shoulder transformation hinge is an oddity), has a real transformation, and a fairly nice deco. I say "fairly nice" on the deco because they went with a charcoal color instead of black so it doesn't pop quite as well as it could. What really drew me to this coloring of the mold over Soundwave (aside from having WFC Soundwave already) is that the red translucent plastic for the wheels and chest are quite striking against the charcoal, gray silver, and yellow; where on Soundwave it's purple on purple with more purple and a side of purple.

Other things that are pleasing:
- the figure size and proportions
- left index finger in trigger-pulling pose allows him to press his eject button
- the elbows and knees have a great ratcheting sound
- joints are all tight and consistent
- Buzzsaw can perch on Soundblaster's shoulder
- yellow eyes, just like Scut Farkus
- minion chest door springs open angrily
- Buzzsaw transformation more fun to spring open than I care to admit
- minion gimmick works in vehicle mode
- vehicle mode is pretty much whole, not a lot of weird gaps
- vehicle is an upsized battle van version of Soundwave's sedan design

Things that are displeasing:
- no pistol accessory (this would be a bigger bummer on Soundwave, but rebooted character can argue rebooted weapons)
- vehicle is a belly-dragger in the front
- not good scale to any other WFC/FOC figures (although that's another reason I picked Soundblaster, can say he is a super mode or something)
- could use more sculpted detail and sharper sculpting
- front wheels are on cheap plastic struts that get in the way of the sliding back plate minion-launcher gimmick
- Buzzsaw has no feet
- bio / techspech is a mess, especially "courage 4" after saying he rushes into battle now as SB
- now I feel compelled to get Ravage & Frenzumble (... Rumby? Frumble.) despite them looking pretty mediocre

All in all, I'd give this a solid B grade, and could even see bumping that half a grade under the right circumstances.

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Even knowing Generations Frumble & Ravage was going to be a bad set, it couldn't quite prepare me for the mediocrity of owning these. They do fit in Soundblaster's chest and they do pop out, but of his data disk minions only Buzzsaw is a satisfying experience and I already had him. These 2 require additional transformation and they look bad once it's done, and they don't transform nicely, and there's fit & finish issues so Frumble jams up while ejecting and stresses every part of Soundblaster's plunger system. And as bad as Ravage is, it seems like they had the ability to make it work better just by locking the back into the rear hips and didn't bother getting that right. Ravage only auto-transforms halfway, the design is locked to that; Frumble at least auto-transforms 90% and just needs his feet flipped up (I don't count folding his arms down, maybe he likes signalling a touchdown, besides, his shoulders are nearly as long as his arms anyway).

Frumble & Ravage - grade: D.