More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[Mako Crab]

Can't really contribute much to the discussion since I haven't read the comics, but on the subject of gay robots in space, Rewind and Chromedown are hardly the first.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Gaskunk

*edit*

And just for the hell of it, I did a search for "Gay Robots in Space" on DeviantArt and came up with this!!

http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=gay+rob ... e#/d4emal1

[Dominic]

How are ‘gay robots’ any worse than ‘gay superheroes’? If

Super heroes are still supposed to be people, albeit people with fantastical powers. Alien space robots are....fucking alien robots from space. Saint James has taken the "TFs are just like people thing to whole new depths.

The association is that the fandoms for "gay alien space robots" consists largely of the guys who read fiction exclusively because they cannot function in reality. Like I said yesterday, it is the same thing that the ED stereotype mocks. And, rather than write something to disprove it, Saint James is playing in to, and affirming, that stereotype. ("Yeah, it is true. And, that is a-okay!")

"Gay people" as a story element is still grounded. "Gay robots" is "if you need to identify with fictional space robots and need them to be 'out there" as much as possible, then this is the book for you".

I admit (and complain about) this comic gets excessively chatty at times, but I critique that as an issue that affects the story pacing and saturates it with unnecessary details, whereas you issue with it just seems to be that some hypothetical people you’re not fond of enjoy it.

Because, even allowing for the book being about a bunch of slackers, drifters and lost souls, it is fucking aimless. For example, issue 12 had a scene establishing that one of the happiest moments in Tailgates life was Minibot movie night. And....uh...why is that important? Seriously. I get the feeling that scene was planned when Saint James originally wrote the Minibot movie night scene. But, I cannot tell you why it is important.

Seriously. "Tailgate was happy then."
Who? The? Fuck? Cares?

Similarly, yeah, Swerve is funny sometimes. But, Swerve being funny is doing too much to carry this book.

Saint James has some talent for dialogue. But, that is no longer rare in the comics industry, and there are guys who do it as well or better. The bulk of his talents seem to lie in the fact that he is writing TFs and having them do stuff. But, he has no apparent ideas.

Why is it worth my time to read about aimless space robots doing nothing? Yeah, Tailgate likes his buddies. But, why do I care? Swerve is funny. So what? The whole point of this book is to showcase the characters while they....get showcased? Why is this worth my time and money? And now, we get shipping. (Yeah, tying two seemingly unrelated characters together is more or less what shipping is about.)

Dude, I just outlined for you the story concepts Roberts was exploring with the relationship and how it actually fit into the narrative, not to mention how it was pretty much unavoidable that such a relationship would involve two ‘male’ characters! Did you not read any of that?

Again, step away from/out of the comics for a second. Why is Saint James bothering to write this?

I have seen nothing anywhere else that indicates the fandom is giving Roberts a pass on anything "just because he's Roberts".

If other writers play the Autobots up as being even morally grey, there are complaints. Saint James writes them as blood-drunk monsters, and nobody seems to mind. (I am fine with some Autobots being blood-drunk, but I would expect the fandom to be more consistently against it.)


Dom
-has already dropped this book.

[Mako Crab]

How are ‘gay robots’ any worse than ‘gay superheroes’? If

Super heroes are still supposed to be people, albeit people with fantastical powers. Alien space robots are....fucking alien robots from space. Saint James has taken the "TFs are just like people thing to whole new depths.

The Transformers have always been portrayed as being just like people, going so far as to turn them into humans on at least 4 separate occasions: Sea Change, Only Human, and Human Error parts 1 and 2. Not to mention the entirety of Beast Machines, which was all about making them less robotic. It's been an inherent part of the mythos since the very first episode of G1.

[Shockwave]

How are ‘gay robots’ any worse than ‘gay superheroes’? If

Super heroes are still supposed to be people, albeit people with fantastical powers. Alien space robots are....fucking alien robots from space. Saint James has taken the "TFs are just like people thing to whole new depths.

The association is that the fandoms for "gay alien space robots" consists largely of the guys who read fiction exclusively because they cannot function in reality. Like I said yesterday, it is the same thing that the ED stereotype mocks. And, rather than write something to disprove it, Saint James is playing in to, and affirming, that stereotype. ("Yeah, it is true. And, that is a-okay!")

"Gay people" as a story element is still grounded. "Gay robots" is "if you need to identify with fictional space robots and need them to be 'out there" as much as possible, then this is the book for you".

This is a good idea in theory. Unfortunately it always fails 100% of the time in a literary context. Yes, they're aliens. But, it's a story. Characters are in a story as an alagory for humanity, not a case study in xenobiology. In a literary context your characters have to be human. If they're not, they need to be anthropromorphized or else you're going to lose the audience because then it becomes writing about aliens because... aliens. And no one wants to read that. People like to find something of themselves in literature. Which means that, for better or worse, if they don't you lose 90% of your audience by making characters too alien. This is the same problem I have with the Bayverse movies. They made the TFs too alien. Which again, in theory would be correct. Show aliens as aliens. Buuuuuut the story is told through the aliens and as such, they need to be more human.

I admit (and complain about) this comic gets excessively chatty at times, but I critique that as an issue that affects the story pacing and saturates it with unnecessary details, whereas you issue with it just seems to be that some hypothetical people you’re not fond of enjoy it.

Because, even allowing for the book being about a bunch of slackers, drifters and lost souls, it is fucking aimless. For example, issue 12 had a scene establishing that one of the happiest moments in Tailgates life was Minibot movie night. And....uh...why is that important? Seriously. I get the feeling that scene was planned when Saint James originally wrote the Minibot movie night scene. But, I cannot tell you why it is important.

Seriously. "Tailgate was happy then."
Who? The? Fuck? Cares?

Similarly, yeah, Swerve is funny sometimes. But, Swerve being funny is doing too much to carry this book.

Saint James has some talent for dialogue. But, that is no longer rare in the comics industry, and there are guys who do it as well or better. The bulk of his talents seem to lie in the fact that he is writing TFs and having them do stuff. But, he has no apparent ideas.

Why is it worth my time to read about aimless space robots doing nothing? Yeah, Tailgate likes his buddies. But, why do I care? Swerve is funny. So what? The whole point of this book is to showcase the characters while they....get showcased? Why is this worth my time and money? And now, we get shipping. (Yeah, tying two seemingly unrelated characters together is more or less what shipping is about.)

Again, you're missing the larger things that are going on in this book. It's burried pretty deep and Roberts is requiring the reader to have patience in the pay off but also to look pretty far beyond the inane banter going on on the Lost Light. There's some intrigue going on here that is somewhat overshadowed by the aimlessness. Again, how did Overlord get in the basement? Who shot Red Alert? Who stole the missing data log? And, with a crew of aimless self serving bots wandering around, there are plenty of suspects.

Granted, Roberts has had a year to tie up these plot threads, but I point these out to illustrate that there is more going on in this book than just "TeH rOb0RtS aM FuNnY!1".

Dude, I just outlined for you the story concepts Roberts was exploring with the relationship and how it actually fit into the narrative, not to mention how it was pretty much unavoidable that such a relationship would involve two ‘male’ characters! Did you not read any of that?

Again, step away from/out of the comics for a second. Why is Saint James bothering to write this?

That's a weird question. Why does anyone write anything (limiting that question to just fictional literature, not politcal writings or propaganda)?

Entertainment. People write for entertainment and people read recreationally for entertainment and that's the bottom line why Roberts is writing this is for our entertainment. And I am entertained. On top of that, I have mysteries going on in the entertainment as the icing on the cake.

I have seen nothing anywhere else that indicates the fandom is giving Roberts a pass on anything "just because he's Roberts".

If other writers play the Autobots up as being even morally grey, there are complaints. Saint James writes them as blood-drunk monsters, and nobody seems to mind. (I am fine with some Autobots being blood-drunk, but I would expect the fandom to be more consistently against it.)

My question is why the fuck would you give a shit? So the fandom at large (or whatever hell hole corner of it you seem to have fallen into) is inconsistent in their opinions who the fuck cares? What real life bearing does that have on you? None. So again why would you even take that into consideration as to whether or not to keep or drop a book?

Dom
-has already dropped this book.

Congratulations, you've now let a bunch of whiny bitches you don't know and don't care about dictate how you live your life. Or at least one aspect of it. Maybe this would be a good opportunity to step back from this and re evaluate whether or not the opinions of the fandom should really be that important to you in the grand scheme of things.

Shockwave
-Between this and the "Prime" Dinobots doesn't that make two TF books you're not reading?

[BWprowl]

Super heroes are still supposed to be people, albeit people with fantastical powers. Alien space robots are....fucking alien robots from space. Saint James has taken the "TFs are just like people thing to whole new depths.

The association is that the fandoms for "gay alien space robots" consists largely of the guys who read fiction exclusively because they cannot function in reality. Like I said yesterday, it is the same thing that the ED stereotype mocks. And, rather than write something to disprove it, Saint James is playing in to, and affirming, that stereotype. ("Yeah, it is true. And, that is a-okay!")

Protip: ED mocks everything for being gay, including superhero comics and ED.

Transformers have been shown to have romantic relationships many, many times before. How is this different from any of those other times? It’s not nearly as gratuitous as, say, Blackarachnia and Silverbolt’s snogging in Beast Wars (alien space robots kissing like humans do? That’s pushing it more than a technically-genderless robot offering his spark to save the life of his technically-genderless robot life partner).

"Gay people" as a story element is still grounded. "Gay robots" is "if you need to identify with fictional space robots and need them to be 'out there" as much as possible, then this is the book for you".

Really? I’d say showing the characters in a relationship, reacting similarly to how we expect people in a relationship to act, grounds the book more than it pushes it into ‘out there’ territory.

Because, even allowing for the book being about a bunch of slackers, drifters and lost souls, it is fucking aimless. For example, issue 12 had a scene establishing that one of the happiest moments in Tailgates life was Minibot movie night. And....uh...why is that important? Seriously. I get the feeling that scene was planned when Saint James originally wrote the Minibot movie night scene. But, I cannot tell you why it is important.

Seriously. "Tailgate was happy then."
Who? The? Fuck? Cares?

Okay, now how did you miss that? The scene was initiated by Tailgate doing ‘happy-place’ therapy to calm his nerves before the battle. This illustrates that he’s not nearly as comfortable with combat as the other, yes, blood-drunk Autobots on the mission, and underscores his inexperience despite his age (highlighting his Rip Van Winkle nature) as well as his less combat-oriented function (bomb disposal, which pointedly comes into play later in the issue). Showing that his ‘happy place’ is being around his new friends (making a point of it being a movie viewing, not a more interactive activity such as a game or something, but an activity which specifically is just about BEING AROUND people and nothing more) shows that in his short time with these characters he’s grown attached to them as something that he can turn to in place of being worried about combat, and serves to contrast with similar newcomer Whirl, who despite a similar situation has not come to care or depend on any of the other crew-members at all, directly illustrated in the issue’s final scene, wherein Tailgate specifically tries to get Rewind out before the bomb explodes, while Whirl locks him in to die as a casualty of carrying out his misguided agenda against Cyclonus. It all ties back to the major themes of this book about how people deal with being lost, isolated, and misplaced: Some, like Tailgate, establish connections and friendships and immerse themselves in those bonds as a comforting environment, while others, like Whirl, reject the connections of others and sacrifice them for momentary self-satisfaction (with Cyclonus falling somewhere in-between, notice how he regularly bounces between Whirl and Tailgate in this issue and others leading up to it).

All that from a SINGLE PANEL that you wrote off as just being stupid because you somehow can’t accept robots watching movies.

Saint James has some talent for dialogue. But, that is no longer rare in the comics industry, and there are guys who do it as well or better. The bulk of his talents seem to lie in the fact that he is writing TFs and having them do stuff. But, he has no apparent ideas.

He has ideas, he’s just too eager to get them out there with little concern for actually doing anything with them. He’s hanging too many guns on the wall just because they look cool and not because he ever intends them to go off anytime soon.

Why is it worth my time to read about aimless space robots doing nothing? Yeah, Tailgate likes his buddies. But, why do I care? Swerve is funny. So what? The whole point of this book is to showcase the characters while they....get showcased? Why is this worth my time and money?

I’m in the same boat as you, in that I feel like Roberts is wasting too much time playing with the characters and not enough time getting to a point with them, but I do genuinely believe that there will be some interesting payoff down the line (issue 12 was pretty much all payoff, and I was grateful for it), plus it’s not nearly as offensive to me as it apparently is to you, so I’ll be sticking with it for the time being. It’s just four bucks a month, after all, and it’s not *angering* me or anything, just trying my patience a bit (okay, a lot, sometimes).

And now, we get shipping. (Yeah, tying two seemingly unrelated characters together is more or less what shipping is about.)

Chromedome and Rewind aren’t ‘unrelated’ though, they’ve been established as partners since this book began. It’s not like they just hooked up in the last couple issues because Roberts read about fans shipping them on some forums or something either, this relationship has back-details going all the way back to those first issues, we’ve just been peeling back layers of it (enhanced by the extenuating events of the issues as they mounted) until we as the audience were simply made aware of this ‘life-partner’ thing.

Again, step away from/out of the comics for a second. Why is Saint James bothering to write this?

Because really exploring how Transformers function in a relationship like this in the situation they’re in is something that hasn’t been done before, and he wanted to try something new? (Say what I will about the guy, he’s clearly making a point of doing something DIFFERENT with this book. It’s practically a Transformers sitcom at times.)

If other writers play the Autobots up as being even morally grey, there are complaints. Saint James writes them as blood-drunk monsters, and nobody seems to mind. (I am fine with some Autobots being blood-drunk, but I would expect the fandom to be more consistently against it.)

Only complaints I ever saw were Anderson being uneasy with Prowl being portrayed as underhanded and morally-ambiguous in a setting/situation where it’s supposed to be peace-time with characters respecting a lack of factional bias (he feels Prowl should be taking a high road or be ‘better than that’), whereas the Autobot raiding party in MTMTE is going to rescue prisoners from defiant Decepticon war criminals in an open combat situation (rather than the politically-motivated assassinations Prowl carries out). Plus it’s made up of guys like Whirl, who has never been presented as a paragon of virtue.

Other than that one instance, I have no idea what ‘complaints’ and ‘free passes’ you’re talking about. Are you able to link to any specific comments on other forums?

[Dominic]

The Transformers have always been portrayed as being just like people, going so far as to turn them into humans on at least 4 separate occasions: Sea Change, Only Human, and Human Error parts 1 and 2. Not to mention the entirety of Beast Machines, which was all about making them less robotic. It's been an inherent part of the mythos since the very first episode of G1.

Not quite. The comics, the real root of the franchise (Marvel having developed the IP for Hasbro before Sunbow), played them up as aliens. Remember, issue 3 established that something as fundamental as death was practically different for TFs, to say nothing of how they saw death. This was even more true in the UK comics.

And, many of the episodes of the cartoons that addressed this question played up the differences as well. "Sea Change" and "The Burden Hardest to Bear" being the two most obvious examples.

The Transformers have always been portrayed as being just like people, going so far as to turn them into humans on at least 4 separate occasions: Sea Change, Only Human, and Human Error parts 1 and 2. Not to mention the entirety of Beast Machines, which was all about making them less robotic. It's been an inherent part of the mythos since the very first episode of G1.

Only if the audience if fixated on identifying with the characters, rather than understanding an idea (as is the case with the RiD comic).

Again, how did Overlord get in the basement? Who shot Red Alert? Who stole the missing data log?

Someone put him there. It does not matter. Who the hell cares.

Roberts is more focused on showing TFs doing stuff that writing about anything else. Whatever ideas this book has are lost in endless fan-moments.

My question is why the fuck would you give a shit? So the fandom at large (or whatever hell hole corner of it you seem to have fallen into) is inconsistent in their opinions who the fuck cares? What real life bearing does that have on you? None. So again why would you even take that into consideration as to whether or not to keep or drop a book?

Fair point. But, I am not happy being associated with that branch of the fandom.

-Between this and the "Prime" Dinobots doesn't that make two TF books you're not reading?

Yup. But, I might pick up the compilation of the Dinobots book.

Protip: ED mocks everything for being gay, including superhero comics and ED.

Yes. And, now, TF is deliveringon the intentionally over the top mockery while saying that the deliberately absurd thing it is mocking is actually not that bad.

It’s not nearly as gratuitous as, say, Blackarachnia and Silverbolt’s snogging in Beast Wars (alien space robots kissing like humans do? That’s pushing it more than a technically-genderless robot offering his spark to save the life of his technically-genderless robot life partner).

The Silverbolt/Blackarachnia thing was one of my least favourite parts of the beast era

This illustrates that he’s not nearly as comfortable

And....this is worth me reading this fucking book for a year why exactly?

It all ties back to the major themes of this book about how people deal with being lost, isolated, and misplaced:

Yeah, the book is pretty aimless. Roberts is not saying much about being lost or isolated though. It just feels like a fanfic or a newsboard discussion about how people feel about the characters. And, really, that ain't worth the time and money this book takes.

Other than that one instance, I have no idea what ‘complaints’ and ‘free passes’ you’re talking about. Are you able to link to any specific comments on other forums?

AllSpark has a good deal of people complaining about how "Prowl is mean and I do not like it". But, there are less complaints about characters like Whirl. Roberts is allowed to write less than sterling Autobots. But, other writers are not given that slack by some fans. (And, yes, I technically agree it is not okay to blame Roberts for that. But, it is just one more annoying thing about this book.)


Dom
-has read enough characters studies, and does not need yet another, particular one so aimless.

[Mako Crab]

Not quite. The comics, the real root of the franchise (Marvel having developed the IP for Hasbro before Sunbow), played them up as aliens. Remember, issue 3 established that something as fundamental as death was practically different for TFs, to say nothing of how they saw death. This was even more true in the UK comics.

And, many of the episodes of the cartoons that addressed this question played up the differences as well. "Sea Change" and "The Burden Hardest to Bear" being the two most obvious examples.

Sea Change, where Seaspray risks his life to be with the woman he loves? Where he declares that he's more than just a bunch of circuits and gears? Where he LITERALLY turns into an Conan-looking merman?

Only if the audience if fixated on identifying with the characters, rather than understanding an idea (as is the case with the RiD comic).

All your examples show the TFs acting in very human ways. Sure, some of their cultural views and their physiology are different than ours, but they're portrayed (very consistently, I might add) as having every bit as much emotion, soul, and heart as any human would. If you want hard science fiction, that truly explores what a machine species acts like, that's 100% not humanized, then Transformers is not the place to be looking for it.

I won't rag on you for dropping the comic. That's what I did, back when Costa was writing his bland ongoing. I'm not trying to convince you to pick the book up again. I just think your ideas about the TFs being inhuman, soulless, alien machines are off the mark. Now if we were talking about an ongoing comic about the daily life of a Borg drone, you'd have a case.

[BWprowl]

Yeah, there you go! “It’s too character-focused and aimless with no ideas to draw me in” is a way better critique and reason to dislike something than “It reads like what I vaguely define fan-fiction as and other people like it”. I feel we’ve really made some progress here.

Not quite. The comics, the real root of the franchise (Marvel having developed the IP for Hasbro before Sunbow), played them up as aliens. Remember, issue 3 established that something as fundamental as death was practically different for TFs, to say nothing of how they saw death. This was even more true in the UK comics.

Um, yeah, that was issue 3 of the original comic. The franchise and how it portrays its robots has made quite a few strides since then. You can’t hold a comic written over 25 years later from a wholly different publisher set in a completely different universe to the early weird elements of an original miniseries that was written to end in only four issues to promote the launch of a new toyline. Fact is, the majority of TF fiction swings closer to the ‘big metal people’ portrayal of the TFs rather than the ‘alien robots’ portrayal, though there is admittedly precedent for both.

Only if the audience if fixated on identifying with the characters, rather than understanding an idea (as is the case with the RiD comic).

There’s also the possibility that the idea in this case (how *people* deal with loss of purpose/drive) would be easier to communicate with characters who are more humanized.

Again, how did Overlord get in the basement? Who shot Red Alert? Who stole the missing data log?

Someone put him there. It does not matter. Who the hell cares.

I myself would be a lot more interested in the Overlord question if Roberts had done ANYTHING with it since it was introduced, what, six issues ago? It’s like he had the page shown because he needed a “Bum-Bum-BUUUUUM!!” to end the issue on, then promptly forgot about it. Ditto for stuff like the DJD, Scavengers, and Necrobot (as wrong as I was about how a lot of that arc turned out), not to mention Red Alert and the data slug. He sets them up because they seem like cool ideas at the time, then suddenly drops them and moves onto some other toybox without doing anything with them. It’s frustrating for me as someone who just wants a continuous, coherent story with well-integrated elements, I can’t imagine how frustrated it must make readers who are big fans of Overlord, or the DJD, to just see waved in front of them and then forgotten about.

That aside, Dom, I get the feeling you just don’t appreciate a good mystery.

Fair point. But, I am not happy being associated with that branch of the fandom.

If you’re that concerned about social stigmas, then comic collecting may not be the best hobby for you.

Yes. And, now, TF is delivering on the intentionally over the top mockery while saying that the deliberately absurd thing it is mocking is actually not that bad.

Considering that you’re the only one here who’s even saying that it’s “that bad” (everyone else seems perfectly cool with it), I’m wondering what the real problem is here.

AllSpark has a good deal of people complaining about how "Prowl is mean and I do not like it". But, there are less complaints about characters like Whirl. Roberts is allowed to write less than sterling Autobots. But, other writers are not given that slack by some fans. (And, yes, I technically agree it is not okay to blame Roberts for that. But, it is just one more annoying thing about this book.)

I think a lot of it has to do with the actual characters involved. Prior to IDW, Prowl was definitely meant to be overly cold, logical, and pragmatic, but his values still aligned with the other Autobots and he could be counted on to support their decisions as an open member of the team. His current portrayal subverts that by a lot, as he’s now designed as some shadowy minister of propaganda who works behind the scenes to keep the Autobots operating HIS way. Aside from sacrificing a bunch of wide-eyed new Wreckers recruits to bury some damning evidence and rebuilding a loveable old man into a propaganda machine (both Roberts ideas, bee-tee-dubs), RID has him committing politically-motivated assassinations to keep the Autobots in favor, and just last issue, working to artificially generate a Decepticon riot so he can swoop in, invite them to police brutality, and simultaneously discredit the Decepticon movement based on a situation he created and take credit on the Autobots’ behalf for quelling said situation. It’s all very underhanded and self-serving and doesn’t sit well with people who liked Prowl’s previous characterization. Meanwhile, you’ve got Whirl, who’s never really been portrayed as anything other than a dangerous lunatic (when he’s been portrayed as anything at all), so there’s less previous, well-liked characterization for this version to clash with in people’s minds.

It’s kinda like how people got so buttmad about how Iron Man was being portrayed around ‘Civil War’, I think.

Now this isn’t absolute, obviously, as I absolutely love what IDW’s doing with Prowl while I find Whirl obnoxious and annoying, but you’d be surprised how varied some people’s views can be.

(Yes, it is *incredibly* ironic that you’re seeing the people who defend Roberts complain about Barber’s portrayal of Prowl, when that portrayal was following through on a characterization that was largely established BY Roberts! With Roberts even CONTINUING to write Prowl that way for the small appearances and roles he has in MTMTE. I’m thinking people just have a problem with Prowl, and not Barber, maybe you should quit taking it so personally on his behalf, Dom.)

[Shockwave]

Fair point. But, I am not happy being associated with that branch of the fandom.

If you’re that concerned about social stigmas, then comic collecting may not be the best hobby for you.

And I think the other question is who is associating you with that part of the fandom? This seriously seems like a beast of your own creation.

[Onslaught Six]

until we as the audience were simply made aware of this ‘life-partner’ thing.

Chromedome looks as surprised as we are, though.

Who shot Red Alert?

Nobody shot him. He ripped his own head off trying to kill himself.

Fair point. But, I am not happy being associated with that branch of the fandom.

Nobody is accusing you of being one of "those fans," and your incessant refusal to just sit back and enjoy it makes it seem like you're hiding something, like that you secretly write gay Rewind/Chromedome slashfic.

AllSpark has a good deal of people complaining about how "Prowl is mean and I do not like it". But, there are less complaints about characters like Whirl. Roberts is allowed to write less than sterling Autobots. But, other writers are not given that slack by some fans. (And, yes, I technically agree it is not okay to blame Roberts for that. But, it is just one more annoying thing about this book.)

The Allspark is full of fucking retards who I want to smash with a hammer. Why do you give a single solitary fuck what any of them think? Are you incapable of forming an opinion on the book in a vacuum? What do YOU think when you read MTMTE? Because I tell you something, when I read it, the last thing I'm thinking of is what anyone else is saying about this book. This is fucking Deathy levels of paranoia, here.

Also, Whirl is allowed to be a dick because he's Whirl. He isn't exactly a good guy Autobot. People can bitch about Prowl if they want to; you ask me, this is the best he's been written since UK G1.

I myself would be a lot more interested in the Overlord question if Roberts had done ANYTHING with it since it was introduced, what, six issues ago?

Overlord is on the fucking cover of Issue 13! Why are you bitching! I mean, we saw that cover months ago! We knew this was going to happen. I almost wonder if Roberts is playing against that.

Even if Red Alert DIDN'T kill himself, then maybe someone killed him to keep him quiet about Overlord--obviously they haven't found him yet.