More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[BWprowl]

I can definitely see why casual readers might get into MTMTE. It’s light, has a mostly fresh cast of guys unencumbered by backstory (and in the case of guys who did take part in previous parts of the series, like Rodimus and Magnus, Roberts basically just ignores the parts of their personalities and character development that he didn’t write, Cyclonus being the one big exception to this), who get all introduced to the reader in one big spurt, then fills up pages with ‘fun’ dialogue and a (relatively) episodic storytelling style. You can pick up any issue and, even if you don’t fully understand everything, you’ll probably enjoy yourself a bit. Roberts using the ‘character shotgun’ approach to writing also pretty much guarantees that character-focused readers will find one or two guys to latch onto, and can keep reading for that reason.

I think my main issue with it is…it still really doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I mean, I know Shocktrek said that not going anywhere might be the point, but there’s a limit, you know? Where are we, from where we started this series (the point where the engines blow up and the ship gets stranded being the point where the story obviously ‘started’)? They’re still flying through space, no closer to finding the Knights than they ever were (them going to the Circle’s planet ended up being the catalyst for a completely different story), Rodimus is still a pointedly terrible leader, Cyclonus is still being broody and alone, and hasn’t advanced his character arc or Tailgate’s, who remains clueless as ever, Rung and Red Alert both got their heads taken off but remain alive, we spent two issues on a side-story about a bunch of Decepticons who had *nothing* to do with the book’s actual cast, all to introduce the Decepticon Justice Division, bring Grimlock back, and tease at the Necrobot, all of which Roberts hasn’t mentioned at all since that story arc, likewise for Overlord in the middle of the ship who we saw for one page and then never mentioned again, we just spent two issues on a flashback story that focused on Orion Pax who has nothing to do with this book, and the origin of Shockwave who *also* has nothing to do with this book (in fact, both characters instead figured more prominently into a side-plot for RID), while squandering opportunity for giving backstory on guys like Prowl and Chromedome to instead just say “They were cops”, as well as showing Skids’s past, only to reveal that this was a part of his past that he already remembered, doing nothing to reveal anything else about his whole Memento shtick, all while Swerve continues to ignore any character development he got in, say, the Annual, in the name of being memetic and quotable. About the only thing that’s gotten any hard development so far was the whole thing with Ratchet’s hands, which was resolved early on and had fuck-all to do with anything else save for adding First Aid to the cast who, surprise surprise, hasn’t had anything important to do since he joined up. It all goes back to my point that Roberts seems to just stick a bunch of this stuff in because he thinks it’d be cool to have in a comic book at the moment, only to drop it when he moves onto the next shiny plot idea he had. It’s less ‘Transformers having adventures in space’ and more ‘Transformers standing around on a spaceship gabbing about whatever Roberts finds amusing at the moment’. This guy would be fantastic for writing a sourcebook, or even a Silmarillion-style collection of world-building anecdotes, but long-form, supposedly continuous storytelling is clearly not his thing. He should focus primarily on shorter, fully self-contained stories with their own specific points (last year’s ‘Chaos Theory’ from him was fantastic for precisely this reason).

You can accuse me of hating fun or whatever, but I’ll admit that this book is *fun*, it’s just not very *interesting*.

[Dominic]

Roberts basically just ignores the parts of their personalities and character development that he didn’t write,

And, most everyone gives him a pass on it, because he is Roberts.


That is more an issue with the fandom than with him. But, it is still bothersome.


Dom
-saw a solicit for an upcoming issue involving a vacation planet.....

[Onslaught Six]

It's coming! Just hang out and wait, man! Read them solicits!

[Dominic]

Yeah, I saw the solicits for issue 14, billed as Overlord's return. Issue 14, (or maybe 15 if it is "to be continued"), will Robert's last chance to impress me.


Dom

[Shockwave]

Roberts basically just ignores the parts of their personalities and character development that he didn’t write,

And, most everyone gives him a pass on it, because he is Roberts.


That is more an issue with the fandom than with him. But, it is still bothersome.

And I think this is our point: You're hating the book because of the fandom. Fuck the fandom and either like/hate the book on it's own damned merits. Seriously, like every complaint you've had since day one hasn't even been about the book itself but your perception of the fandom's reaction to it. Which I'm not even convinced is the actual fandom's reaction. I mean, seriously, I've strolled through a few of the comics forums on TFW occasionally and have found none of what you refer to. No one gives Roberts a pass on anything "just because it's Roberts". They like the book for it's merits and that's it. Oh, and guess what? They also seem to like RID as well. Wanna start hating that because of it? My point is you've got some serious issues with the fandom you really just need to let some of that shit go. It's starting to make you see shit that isn't there.

I'll have more comments on the story after I go to the comic shop tonight, but so far I actually am impressed with this book. It's such a huge departure from the typical "Robots am fighting" "Op vs. Megs" and "Autobots vs Decepticons" that it really actually is something we haven't seen in TF before. It's basically a TF take on Star Trek. Or has the potential to be. Right now there's so much going on with the mismatched crew that needs to be sorted out before it gets to that.

[Dominic]

Issue 12:

It took over 25 years. But, it finally happened. There is a TF comic on shelves and I wll not be reading it.

My biggest over-all complaint about "More than Meets the Eye" has been that it reads like a fanfic. It has some good ideas, (such as the relinquishment clinics and other things hinted at largely in flash-back). But, the ideas and any chance of them being used in a meaningful way are lost amid endless scenes of the characters just "doing stuff", idiotic memes ("ohoho, Swerve has nightmare fuel") and (now) shipping. Issue 12 makes the shipping unambiguous.

I just cannot bring myself to keep reading this book. Roberts is not a bad writer. But, at this point, he has become another case study of why fans should not write for the property they love without an editor. (The same thing has arguably happened with Busiek and Waid at various times in their careers, so Roberts is not alone in having this problem.)

Morrison is wrapping up a year and a half on "Superman" that I have barely read. But, I found time to read this book....and for what?

And, to make matters worse, the fandom is all over this book, giving Saint James a pass on things that they would never accept from other writers. For all of the howling about how bad IDW's handling of Prowl is, I see nary a peep about how Roberts' handles the crew of the Lost Light. (The Autobots come across as blood drunk killers in this most recent issue. I am okay with that conceptually. But, given how many fans are squeemish about less than perfect good guys, there is suprisingly little complaint about Roberts' handling of the Autobots.)


Yeah, I am done with "More than Meets the Eye". I might give Roberts another chance a few years from now, on a non-TF book (assuming he ever leaves the franchise).



Dom
-notes that "More than Meets they Eye" looks even worse compared to the other two TF books that are out now.

[BWprowl]

Oh noes, gay robots! Abandon comic!

Seriously, what makes the (yes, canon) relationship between Chromedome and Rewind count as evil, terrible 'shipping' rather than just being...a character relationship that functions as an element of the story? Really, tell me what it is that makes it any different from, I dunno, Peter and Mary-Jane in a Spider-Man comic, or Lois and Superman in All-Star Superman, or the infinite amount of characters that have shown to be dating across billions of stories since the dawn of time? What, the *hell*, is such a big problem with two of the book's cast of *hundreds* being more than just friends or acquaintances? Give me specifics, not just your gut feelings or references to hypothetical fan reactions/interpretations that may not exist.

As ambivalent as I am about MTMTE, it's something I've really had a problem with you having problems with it, Dom. Most of your complaints are so damn nebulous and reactionary. Saying that it's 'like a fanfic' doesn't explain what, specifically is wrong with the story structure or theming or dialogue or anything. Saying that "I can't be sure, but my gut feeling is that Roberts put this thing in because he thought the people reading the book might LIKE it, and that is BAD" is an absolutely psychotic complaint to have with the book, and none of your similarly-based complaints are objective problems with the story at all, just you reacting with aversion because a small, vocal group of people whom you personally don't care for hypothetically said that they like the comic for reasons that you take issue with, and while that's a legitimate (if drastic) reason for you to drop the book because you're just that squeamish about some Transfans not being the hardest sells in the world, that sort of 'complaint' has no place being included in a review or being held against the book itself.

I'm about 50/50 on MTMTE at this point, but I can tell you legitimate things I dislike and take issue with about it. The pacing is glacial. The dialogue wears out its welcome and doesn't contribute to the actual story a lot of the time. Roberts wastes too much time on world-building that he admits has little to do with the story. There's a bad case of details being told and not shown. A lot of the characters are unlikeable, and not in the good way. There are too many Original Characters being slotted in when a book based on G1 could benefit more from exploring the gigantic cast the setting has already established.

All you've got is "It kinda reminds me of a fanfic I might have read a long time ago and also fans of the property it's based on are enjoying it and that's BAD!"

I do admit that Roberts' own Transfandom is causing issues with the composition of the book, but in my opinion it's more of a case of Roberts being too excited about writing the property and flitting around to the next toys he wants to play with next to make sure he can get the most fiddle time out of his tenure, rather than being able to settle down and just tell one, solid, coherent narrative with a single batch of a few characters.

For what it's worth, I actually really liked Issue 12. It had a solid, singular story in the space of the one issue, but used that framing story to bring in payoff to some other threads that had been set up, as well as pushing forward character arcs for guys like Cyclonus, Tailgate, and Whirl (as well as their respective interactions). This is the comic I was hoping I would be reading around the time I read issue 2 or 3. Not that I expect it to be consistent, what with the vacation planet thing happening next ish.

This issue also pretty much solidified Roberts' fetish for almost-killing characters though, with Rewind and Swerve getting their turn this go-around. I'm almost starting to wonder if this almost-dead thing is going to turn out to be a driving theme of the book, and, I dunno, it'll be revealed that all these characters who 'miraculously survived' were actually dead after all, and the last couple issues will be Rodimus and Skids alone on a ship full of corpses as their delusions that their dropping-like-flies crew-mates somehow survived come crashing down around them. Or that everyone was dead to begin with after the explosion in the first issue, and the 'Lost' in 'Lost Light' was in fact, a reference.

[Dominic]

Roberts is making "TFs are hearty and long lived" even more of a thing than it was in the old Marvel series. I actually like that most of the guys in the waiting room of the relinquishment clinic were Decepticons. The story behind that is obvious, (disillusioned Decepticons are killing themselves, leaving the faction to the worst elements), but Roberts is more focused on memes and fannishness.

And, of course, being aimless and damned near immortal would be a pretty lousy deal.

Oh noes, gay robots! Abandon comic!

Really? We are doing this?

When have I ever had an issue with gay characters, (never mind real people)? I am the guy who is pushing "Earth 2" down in the comics forum.

My problem with Chromedome and Rewind is that it is fucking shipping in a book that already reads like a damned fanfic.

Fanfic is malum in se. There. I. Said. It.

Gay robot comics. No. Seriously. Gay robot comics. Dude, that sounds like a parody of everything that is wrong with our hobby.


Dom
-if it looks like fanfic and reads like fanfic, it is best avoided

[Onslaught Six]

No joke: As soon as I read 12, I said out loud: "Oh man, Dom's going to HATE this."

I don't see the big deal. Rewind and Chromedome's "relationship" isn't gratuitous. It's not 'anything,' really--his partner gets fucked up and he deals with the fact that he is physically incapable of saving him. That's a compelling storyline! That's cool! That's interesting! And it's even more interesting because they're Transformers, who do not typically have these kind of relationships.

When Cybertron Downshift (the Wheeljack guy) was revealed in his bio (or was it his Hasbro online profile?) to have an estranged wife that he was separated from, it didn't "read like fanfic" (WHATEVER THE FUCK THAT MEANS) and it didn't "count as shipping." I hate "shipping" more than anything (I just feel dirty typing the fucking word) but this isn't that.

Because "shipping" is a fandom thing. It's not a thing that actually takes place inside the fiction. If I express a desire to see Prowl and Arcee get it on in the backroom of Iacon, that's shipping. If Roberts writes that into the comic, it's smut. Learn your damn terms!

[BWprowl]

Oh noes, gay robots! Abandon comic!

Really? We are doing this?

When have I ever had an issue with gay characters, (never mind real people)? I am the guy who is pushing "Earth 2" down in the comics forum.

See, you say that here, but then just a bit further down...

Gay robot comics. No. Seriously. Gay robot comics. Dude, that sounds like a parody of everything that is wrong with our hobby.

Yeah, there are gay robots in the comic that stars nothing but robots. How is this any different from the gay people comics that DC's Earth 2 is? In fact, I haven't even read it, but I would bet a million dollars that Alan Scott's relationship with his boyfriend in Earth 2 is worse-written than Chromedome and Rewind's relationship in MTMTE. Side-point: I never saw you complaining that Alan Scott's relationship with his boyfriend was 'shipping', so what's the difference? Quantify it for me. Because all you keep doing is going on like this:

My problem with Chromedome and Rewind is that it is fucking shipping in a book that already reads like a damned fanfic.

Fanfic is malum in se. There. I. Said. It.

Please define for those of us that don't use your versions of the terms (and also don't speak Latin, PS) what 'reads like fanfic' entails? Because all I'm seeing is a comic by a writer who happens to enjoy writing Transformers. Look, I know that a comic by a guy who specifically did not enjoy writing Transformers (Costa's run) was something we both enjoyed, but that doesn't mean that the opposite is automatically the worst thing ever.

Fun fact: The only TF fanfic I've ever read was DvD's stuff, which were all strongly structured around exploring ideas or explaining otherwise ignored-in-fiction elements of the mythos. Which, incidentally, is a lot of what McCarthy and Costa's runs did. Ipso facto, those comics read like fanfic and I must hate them.

No joke: As soon as I read 12, I said out loud: "Oh man, Dom's going to HATE this."

Ditto.

I don't see the big deal. Rewind and Chromedome's "relationship" isn't gratuitous. It's not 'anything,' really--his partner gets fucked up and he deals with the fact that he is physically incapable of saving him. That's a compelling storyline! That's cool! That's interesting! And it's even more interesting because they're Transformers, who do not typically have these kind of relationships.

This. This so hard. I also need to reiterate that it makes EVEN MORE sense here, since in IDW's TF universe, There Are No Female Cybertronians Except Arcee, so if they did form 'romantic' attachments, of course it would be with other 'males'.