Comics are Awesome II

[andersonh1]

And...? None of that changes the fact that DC has not created a new DC universe here. As I keep pointing out, while you seem to continually gloss it over, some of the 'old baggage' has indeed carried over. What DC did back in the 70's and before in regards to continuity doesn't apply here. They are maintaining the ongoing continuity they've established since the 80's in one regard here while refreshing many of the characters in another. The result is that there are big changes to be sure, but it is supposed to still be the same DC universe in context.

It is technically the same universe in story terms, but then so was the Flashpoint universe that we saw for five issues of Flashpoint. That universe and the New 52 are so altered by time travel changes that for all practical purposes it may as well be a new universe. With the exception of recent Batman and Green Lantern, very little from the old continuity is being carried forward, so even though it's the same universe in technical terms, that's pretty much meaningless. They didn't reset things to keep writing stories based on the old continuity after all.

While on the subject of DC universes.... DC has finally announced Multiversity is happening.

I wasn't all that interested in this, but I saw Ted Kord/Blue Beetle in the previews. I might have to take a look after all.

[Sparky Prime]

It is technically the same universe in story terms, but then so was the Flashpoint universe that we saw for five issues of Flashpoint.

Right. It isn't unlike Days of the Future Past or the Age of Apocalypse storylines from X-Men where time travel radically altered the history of the Marvel universe. Except the fallout in the Marvel universe after those events wasn't quite as big of an impact as Flashpoint was for the DC universe when things went back to 'normal'.

That universe and the New 52 are so altered by time travel changes that for all practical purposes it may as well be a new universe.

So you've said, but I don't buy it "might as well be" a new universe at all. Yes, there has been some dramatic changes but there is more that has stayed the same from pre-Flashpoint here than you are willing to admit to. You can't just ignore that aspect here, which grounds it as the same universe.

With the exception of recent Batman and Green Lantern, very little from the old continuity is being carried forward, so even though it's the same universe in technical terms, that's pretty much meaningless. They didn't reset things to keep writing stories based on the old continuity after all.

What about Swamp Thing? Hawk and Dove? Deadman? Aquaman? There are more characters that had little or no impact from Flashpoint than you seem to realize. It's not just the Batman and Green Lantern titles. Thus, it is not meaningless for this to still be the same universe at all. The point was to refresh some characters while continuing storylines of other characters and maintain their continuity that didn't need changed up. A mix of new and old. You have to realize they didn't keep some things the same to just start all over with a new continuity.

[Tigermegatron]

With the exception of recent Batman and Green Lantern, very little from the old continuity is being carried forward, so even though it's the same universe in technical terms, that's pretty much meaningless. They didn't reset things to keep writing stories based on the old continuity after all.

What about Swamp Thing? Hawk and Dove? Deadman? Aquaman? There are more characters that had little or no impact from Flashpoint than you seem to realize. It's not just the Batman and Green Lantern titles. Thus, it is not meaningless for this to still be the same universe at all. The point was to refresh some characters while continuing storylines of other characters and maintain their continuity that didn't need changed up. A mix of new and old. You have to realize they didn't keep some things the same to just start all over with a new continuity.

My guess is things got reset for the same exact reasons IDW reset the TF G-1 comics. Because it was too time consuming & a huge chor to keep researching a previous writers work thru the years. to try to make everything correct & not make mistakes in past situations,stories,events & the way certain characters are suspose to get portrayed in the past,present & future.

Resetting everything in a newer continuity allows the newer writers more freedom,less headaches & next to known previous writers research.

my guess is this reset won't work & it'll cause readers to leave & stop buying. like the newer energy red & blue superman didn't work in the 1990's. the reset will fail,readers will complain & threathen to stop buying the comics. for a while the writers will do a coke old & new coke thing. where the old continuity comes back & is sold next to the newer reset continuity. eventually the newer continuity will get called a alternate universe thing or a dream sequence & get cancelled.

The thing these comics companies don't understand is these comic book super heroes reading the comics are older guys,set in their ways. they don't accept change in a positive manner. these comic book buyers know they have the comic companies by the wallet. these comic bookl buyers will form rallies,on-line petitions,pass the word around for everyone to stop buying the comics. complain on all the forum boards,complain at conventions. write these comic companies & call them on the phone to repeatily voice their negative opinion.

These comic companies think doing a super heroes reset will draw in the newer younger newbie readers in drones. they think the newer crowd will replace the older crowd in higher numbers. they think the older crowd won't be missed in sales but their dead wrong on all accounts. those young guys could care less about comics. those young guys are into video games,on line role playing games,face book,ebay,forums & so forth. Comics are not things toddlers,teenagers or young adults read. if you don't read the comics when your a kid or teenager you won't feel old a decade later & automatically start reading comics.

About the only positives I can see from these reset comics. is to see how sexy drawn those super hero females look. the added curves. better looking prettier faces. barely their outfits. tights replaced by skirts. wonder women styled tops. longer hair,better colored outfits. more edgy new age personas for the good & bad super heroes. maybe some nude female super heroes scenes.

[Dominic]

They didn't reset things to keep writing stories based on the old continuity after all.

Exactly. In real terms, new 52 is not the old DCU.

my guess is this reset won't work & it'll cause readers to leave & stop buying. like the newer energy red & blue superman didn't work in the 1990's. the reset will fail,readers will complain & threathen to stop buying the comics. for a while the writers will do a coke old & new coke thing. where the old continuity comes back & is sold next to the newer reset continuity. eventually the newer continuity will get called a alternate universe thing or a dream sequence & get cancelled.

Real sales of DC books have increased. And, they have beaten Marvel in both real and relative terms at least once since the big reset.

The thing these comics companies don't understand is these comic book super heroes reading the comics are older guys,set in their ways. they don't accept change in a positive manner. these comic book buyers know they have the comic companies by the wallet. these comic bookl buyers will form rallies,on-line petitions,pass the word around for everyone to stop buying the comics. complain on all the forum boards,complain at conventions. write these comic companies & call them on the phone to repeatily voice their negative opinion.

The worst thing that comic publishers ever did was to put themselves so completely in teh control of the most obnoxious fantards. They are a small segment of the population. And, if sales are anythign to go by, they are not even a significant part of the comic-reader base. Very few people outside of, or likely even in, a comic shop are going to listen to anybody who attends a protest rally because their favourite comics were changed. But, people might look at those fans and their protests and decide they want nothing to do with an industry that is associated with that sort of idiocy.

About the only positives I can see from these reset comics. is to see how sexy drawn those super hero females look. the added curves. better looking prettier faces. barely their outfits. tights replaced by skirts. wonder women styled tops. longer hair,better colored outfits. more edgy new age personas for the good & bad super heroes. maybe some nude female super heroes scenes.

That?

The?

Fuck?


Who the hell thinks that comic book fap-fodder makes any sense?!?!?!?!?

I wasn't all that interested in this, but I saw Ted Kord/Blue Beetle in the previews. I might have to take a look after all.

I was actually more interested in E4 during "Countdown", when they killed off Nightshade and Captain Atom (removing the only two super-humans from the E4 setting). Morrison of course shat on that idea during "Final Crisis".

Either way, "Multiversity" looks promising. We know that Morrison has plans for E5 and E10. The latter, a world in which Superman inherits a world conquered by the Huns in 1045, is likely to be either excellent or terrible.

[Sparky Prime]

My guess is things got reset for the same exact reasons IDW reset the TF G-1 comics. Because it was too time consuming & a huge chor to keep researching a previous writers work thru the years. to try to make everything correct & not make mistakes in past situations,stories,events & the way certain characters are suspose to get portrayed in the past,present & future.

Resetting everything in a newer continuity allows the newer writers more freedom,less headaches & next to known previous writers research.

I'm not so sure it was simply to make researching what previous writers had done with characters easier. After all, they did keep some continuity intact here, so it wasn't a complete reboot. The way DC has presented it was actually to make the characters more accessible to readers.

Exactly. In real terms, new 52 is not the old DCU.

No. In real terms, the New 52 is a mix of new and old. Again, it is not a completely new DCU here.

[andersonh1]

Real sales of DC books have increased. And, they have beaten Marvel in both real and relative terms at least once since the big reset.

In total sales dollars, or at least in top ten numbers they are beating Marvel, and have for much of the past year. But that's only because of DC's top tier books doing much better. Everything else is back to pre-Flashpoint or lower. The top of DC's line has stayed strong, everything else not so much.

http://comicbookrevolution.net/index.ph ... &Itemid=82

Other links, from throughout this past year.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/06/0 ... ta-charts/

http://comiksdebris.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... month.html

http://kleefeldoncomics.blogspot.com/20 ... sales.html

http://comicbookrevolution.net/index.ph ... &Itemid=82

[Sparky Prime]

From what that article from comicalliance.com you posted says, DC's "overall comic-book figures are noticeably up over the last three years". Sure some of the titles have dipped back down in sales, but I think everyone pretty much expected that to happen once the initial fascination of the New 52 wore off. It's not realistic to believe all of them would stay so high in sales.

And it says something that Marvel is pretty much following DC's lead by relaunching several of their titles under this "Marvel Now" banner.

[andersonh1]

And it says something that Marvel is pretty much following DC's lead by relaunching several of their titles under this "Marvel Now" banner.

I agree, but there's one difference: Marvel isn't rebooting their universe. They're making some changes, restarting the books with #1s and shuffling creative teams, but they're going forward in their current continuity. I'll be curious to see how that plays out in terms of sales.

[Sparky Prime]

I agree, but there's one difference: Marvel is rebooting their universe. They're making some changes, restarting the books with #1s and shuffling creative teams, but they're going forward in their current continuity. I'll be curious to see how that plays out in terms of sales.

You're right there is a difference, but you're wrong as to what that difference is. Once again, DC also continued forward with their continuity in the New 52 relaunch, but the difference is that they majorly overhauled several of their characters at the same time. I don't know why you keep ignoring this point that they've done both here. Marvel likely will not be changing any of their characters so dramatically as DC did, but you can bet they will probably make some tweaks to their continuity given this opportunity.

[andersonh1]

Once again, DC also continued forward with their continuity in the New 52 relaunch,

No, they threw out 90% of their continuity. Have you really sat down and taken a look at how many stories have changed or gone by the wayside, and thought about how different that makes all the characters? Have you thought about how many characters are entirely gone from the scene? This is not the same continuity we've been reading since 1986. It simply is not. You cannot change, delete and otherwise jettison story after story and character-forming event after character-forming event and claim with a straight face that the continuity is the same.

I'll say it again: DC didn't throw all of that out for no reason. They wanted to start over. They wanted to go forward without having to be consistent with what came before, which is all that continuity really is.

but the difference is that they majorly overhauled several of their characters at the same time. I don't know why you keep ignoring this point that they've done both here.

No, they haven't. They've majorly overhauled just about every character. And they threw out most of their history to do it, leaving us with the nebulous and undefined "five years" in which things that we're just not privy to happened.

How many zero issues have you had a chance to read? Compare the modern origins in the issues from this past month with the originals. In no way, shape or form can the New 52 be said to be following in continuity with the pre-Flashpoint DC universe. Far, far too much has been changed.

Marvel likely will not be changing any of their characters so dramatically as DC did, but you can bet they will probably make some tweaks to their continuity given this opportunity.

Tweaks are one thing. DC did far more than tweak their universe.

An analogy: DC has done essentially what the last Star Trek movie did. The writers of that movie wanted a clean slate without discounting 40 years of Trek on TV and thus alienating the fanbase. So they had the Romulans change history so they could tell their new story without totally writing off everything we saw during TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy and Ent. Those old stories happened, but now they won't. A new reality dominates in which old characters are new, different, and not bound by having to be consistent with past appearances. And while the Star Trek 2009 is technically in continuity with all of those old series, in reality it isn't. It will replace and overwrite old stories with new ones, and old characters with new versions. It's more than a tweak to the Star Trek universe, it's a major upheaval. Continuity has been tossed out deliberately so writers can go in their own new direction, with only old Spock as a nod to the long-time fans. And that's exactly what DC has done. I'd half expected Wally West to turn up in the old Spock role, surprised at the changes to the universe around him, but that hasn't happened. It may yet, or some other character may fill that role eventually. Booster Gold perhaps.