Comics are Awesome II

[Shockwave]

I think part of the problem here is that DC said "Alan Scott is gay" not "the Original Green Lantern is gay". If they had, we might not even be having this discussion right now.

[Onslaught Six]

The only problem with that is, as we've demonstrated, not everyone is aware that Hal Jordan wasn't the first Green Lantern.

[BWprowl]

I think part of the problem here is that DC said "Alan Scott is gay" not "the Original Green Lantern is gay". If they had, we might not even be having this discussion right now.

I don't know about you, but my newspaper reported it as 'Green Lantern is gay'. Granted, the article went on to clarify that it wasn't Hal Jordan and was in fact Alan Scott, then even explained that Alan Scott was the original Golden Age Green Lantern, and that this was in an alternate universe, but yeah.

They did the same thing back when Miles Morales happened, reporting that "Spider-Man is biracial now!" then only a few paragraphs in clarifying that regular-flavor Spider-Man was still a cracker while this new guy was the alternate-universe version, and was not, in fact, a race-lifted Peter Parker. Of course, this is the same newspaper that EVERY SINGLE YEAR in their article about Free Comic Book Day has to gently clarify to the public that they can't just walk into comic stores and grab any comic they want without paying. The Fresno Bee is an odd publication sometimes.

[Onslaught Six]

"Racelifted" is my new favourite term. (What can I say? I love puns.)

[Dominic]

It sounds like the Fresno Bee like soft leads. (In most cases, soft leads are best avoided. But, too many newspapers think that they are the rare exception to that rule.) There is a paper in Boston that pulls that shit. i give them a bit of slack because they are light years ahead of their nearest competitor. But, if I do not get to the point of the article (aka "the nut") before getting to the "go to page ___", then I am done with that article.

Specifiying what comics are free on FCBD is reasonable. This past FCBD, I saw at least one person who needed it clarified for them, despite signs saying "books on this table" and such.

Being iconic to members of a fandom is stretching the definition of iconic. If DC's press release about Alan Scott being gay was aimed at Wizard of Overstreet's, then "iconic" would be more reasonable, (but still a stretch). But, calling Alan Scott (who most people do not even associate with the second tier "Green Lantern") "iconic" in a mass media press release is absurd.

What you and Shockwave seem to only be focusing on is what makes iconic characters stand out above the rest,

Which is kind of the point of "iconic".

To use the Solid Snake example: Solid Snake is not iconic. Nobody outside of video games knows/cares about Solid Snake. People who like video games *and* recognize "Metal Gear" as a property recognize Solid Snake. Mario is iconic. To a much lesser degree, Mega-Man or Link would qualify as iconic. Pikachu is iconic.

Does being iconic mean that the character or the comics/movies/books they appear in are better in some way? No. For a time, I would have preferred to read a "Dark Avengers" comic rather than a comic about an iconic character like "Spider-Man". "Archie" is iconic, but beyond occassional bouts of morbid curiosity, you would have to pay me to read that friggin' book.

Iconic ties to recognizability. The fact that there are people in comics shops who do not know/care about Alan Scott undermines the idea of him being iconic.

I don't think it has anything to do with standards,

And this is why I never pursued english as a major after undergrad.


Dom
-refuses to capitalize the major of hucksters, charlatans and frauds.

[Sparky Prime]

I think part of the problem here is that DC said "Alan Scott is gay" not "the Original Green Lantern is gay". If they had, we might not even be having this discussion right now.

I don't know about you, but my newspaper reported it as 'Green Lantern is gay'. Granted, the article went on to clarify that it wasn't Hal Jordan and was in fact Alan Scott, then even explained that Alan Scott was the original Golden Age Green Lantern, and that this was in an alternate universe, but yeah.

Yeah, most of the headlines I've seen said "DC Comics announced Green Lantern is gay", or "Original Green Lantern gay, DC announces" or something to that effect, with out actually saying it's Alan Scott until the article itself.

Which is kind of the point of "iconic".

To use the Solid Snake example: Solid Snake is not iconic. Nobody outside of video games knows/cares about Solid Snake. People who like video games *and* recognize "Metal Gear" as a property recognize Solid Snake. Mario is iconic. To a much lesser degree, Mega-Man or Link would qualify as iconic. Pikachu is iconic.

No it isn't. Look, you can argue it's a stretch of the definition if you want, but that isn't going to change that it is widely used like that already. If you do a search of iconic video game characters, and you're not really that big of a video game fan, you will find characters you've never even heard of. I'm sure all of those characters you mention will be there but Solid Snake will be on some of those lists as well. Do a search of iconic comic book characters, if you're not that big into it, you will find plenty of characters you've never heard of. Someone who isn't a Transformers fan will undoubtedly find names they aren't familiar with on a list of iconic Transformers characters. The same is true of any thing. Because the definition extends beyond what you think it is.

And this is why I never pursued english as a major after undergrad.

It would explain this absurd argument over the definition of a word.

[Dominic]

So, if somebody (for some reason or another) searches a list of video game characters, Solid Snake is on it? And, that matters to people who are not in to video games....how exactly?

Meanwhile, Pikachu is recognized by people who do not care about video games, cartoons, toys and other insular mom's basement bull-shit. Ditto for Mario. Solid Snake would be "some army guy, maybe from a game or something". Do you see the difference?

Alan "Green Lanter" Scott shares a name with several other characters who are second tier at best to begin with. And, Alan Scott is the one that is lesser known even among comic fans.


Dom

[Onslaught Six]

Just to stir the pot, I've seen stuff like the cover to Issue 1 of Dark Knight Returns referred to as "iconic," but prior to reading the damn thing, I'd never seen it beyond in passing.

[Sparky Prime]

So, if somebody (for some reason or another) searches a list of video game characters, Solid Snake is on it? And, that matters to people who are not in to video games....how exactly?

Meanwhile, Pikachu is recognized by people who do not care about video games, cartoons, toys and other insular mom's basement bull-shit. Ditto for Mario. Solid Snake would be "some army guy, maybe from a game or something". Do you see the difference?

Not simply someone searching for a list of video game characters, iconic video game characters. Seriously, that link in my last post, about Solid Snake listed as an iconic video game character? It's from the very first result that came up on a google search for "iconic video game characters". There are a few more on that list I've never even heard of as well. And do you think people who aren't into video games (or what have you) will really even care who is an iconic character or not? Hell, even with a character like Pickachu, sure an insular mom might be able to recognize the character if their kid loves Pokemon, but that doesn't mean she'll see it as iconic herself. All she'd really know is that her kid likes it. She might not actually even know it's from a video game either, because it's popularity mostly comes from the cartoon series based on the games.

The difference is you're still confusing iconic to mean recognizable to everybody. Again, the term is widely used as I have described it. I don't see why you're trying to argue against that.

Alan "Green Lanter" Scott shares a name with several other characters who are second tier at best to begin with. And, Alan Scott is the one that is lesser known even among comic fans.

How is Green Lantern second tier?

And Alan Scott was still the original Green Lantern.

Just to stir the pot, I've seen stuff like the cover to Issue 1 of Dark Knight Returns referred to as "iconic," but prior to reading the damn thing, I'd never seen it beyond in passing.

Exactly.

[138 Scourge]

Thing that is funny to me, sort of. The pretty cool superhero "Icon"? Probably not, by deinition, iconic. Though his poster did appear in Fresh Prince of Bel-Aire, if I recall right.

And Alan Scott was still the original Green Lantern.

Word. Wasn't for Mart Nodell coming up with the icon of the Green Lantern, you don't get your fancypants Hal Jordan or the other guys who I like better.