Theories, Hasbro doesn't care & lets IDW do as they please.

[BWprowl]

Weren't the Knights of Cybertron those special sword guys that Drift met up with when he changed allegiance? And then he got a sword and was like an honorary Knight of Cybertron or some such? Who were those guys?

That was Dai Atlas's group. They were a bunch of neutral/runaway Cybertronians who followed the supposedly mythical teachings of the original Knights of Cybertron, styling themselves into honorary successors of that group. Making Drift more of an Honorary Honorary Knight of Cybertron, I guess.

[Sparky Prime]

Those guys were called the Circle of Light.

[Shockwave]

Ah. It's been a while since I've read Drift so I couldn't remember what the deal was.

[Onslaught Six]

If the Knights of Cybertron turn out to not be the Thirteen, that doesn't even necessarily mean that this universe 'has' a Thirteen--the Knights of Cybertron would just be their "stand-in" for this universe. (Kind of like how ROTF establishes there were only seven Primes, I guess. Although Hasbro's stance is that there were always Thirteen, and just seven of them are named "Prime." Whatever. Total mess.)

Yeah, I agree with that. I believe that's what the Knights of Cybertron is, just a different name for the Original 13 (or however many there are in the IDW-verse) not unlike the Dynasty of Primes.

Okay! See that's the thing we were trying to get at, we were just apparently wording it differently.

See the thing is, the Thirteen at this juncture have been given a much more rigid definition. For example...there are thirteen of them. I'm pretty sure they all have names at this point. Some of them have distinct descriptions. (One's a Minicon, one's a girl, one's a combiner, etc.) The guys that Rodimus is looking for might be described by Drift as "the original Cybertronians" but that doesn't necessarily mean they're literally The Thirteen. There's a *chance* that they could be, but until Rodimus finds them (or gives up--Rodimus might never find them but find the meaning of friendship or whatever) or IDW outright says they're the same, then we won't know.

(In fact, one could make a pretty strong case that the Knights of Cybertron can't be the literal Thirteen in this universe, since Alpha Trion is one of the Thirteen, and he's already showed up in IDW's continuity and doesn't appear to be linked to any sort of ancient group of TFs.)

[Sparky Prime]

Okay! See that's the thing we were trying to get at, we were just apparently wording it differently.

What BWprowl said is that he thought they were different groups though, as in not IDW's version of the 13.

(In fact, one could make a pretty strong case that the Knights of Cybertron can't be the literal Thirteen in this universe, since Alpha Trion is one of the Thirteen, and he's already showed up in IDW's continuity and doesn't appear to be linked to any sort of ancient group of TFs.)

Or the Alpha Trion in this universe isn't one of its members (despite Hasbro's 'multiversal singularity' BS). Or maybe he is and just hasn't been revealed as such yet.

[Tigermegatron]

Folks this is IDW where talking about. their the kings of reboots,partial reboots. hiring new writters that ignore previous writters stories/canon. Even if the 2012 IDW writters did have the knightas of cybertron be the original 13. next year in 2013 another newbie writter will erase everything the 2012 IDW wrote & decide to re-write stuff his way,with no regard to the previous writers hard work/stories/canon.

Personally speaking the IDW TF G-1 comics are pure awful. marvel & DW wrote better TF comic stories,had no reboots & no re-writes.

I had to take 6 months off from reading the IDW TF comics due to the huge let down & horrible stories that was the "Choas" saga.

I might not return to buying IDW TF comics. If I do it'll be via trade paper backs that collect 6 monthly issues all in one book. perhaps it'll be easier to stomach reading the entire trade paper back in under a half hour. compared to waiting each month & rwading singular issues that leave off in cliffhanger scenarios.

[BWprowl]

What BWprowl said is that he thought they were different groups though, as in not IDW's version of the 13.

And I stand by that until further notice. But I acknowlege your right to think otherwise until Roberts makes everything clear later down the line. These are comics! Transformers comics! Speculation and arguing about guesses is half the fun!

Folks this is IDW where talking about. their the kings of reboots,partial reboots. hiring new writters that ignore previous writters stories/canon. Even if the 2012 IDW writters did have the knightas of cybertron be the original 13. next year in 2013 another newbie writter will erase everything the 2012 IDW wrote & decide to re-write stuff his way,with no regard to the previous writers hard work/stories/canon.

IDW's actually been pretty good about consistent canonizing and world-building lately (in fact they've actively been pushing all their multiple books and tie-ins and so forth, because they seem to recognize that the fans reading these *want* a big, intertwined universe in the style of the Big Two). Case in point: Prowl, a character who's had a consistent, ongoing character arc through multiple writers going back arguably as far as All Hail Megatron. Ditto Thundercracker, though he seems to be MIA at the moment. And stuff like the Matrix, the Dead Universe, Gorlam Prime, Alpha Trion, and Bumblebee-as-the-Leader have all been kept up on and utilized. Really, AHM was the last big, dismissive discard-and-draw reboot we got, and I think they've kept things pretty consistent and fluid since then.

[Onslaught Six]

Okay! See that's the thing we were trying to get at, we were just apparently wording it differently.

What BWprowl said is that he thought they were different groups though, as in not IDW's version of the 13.

Well, see, that's the thing. If they meet the Knights of Cybertron and there's only eight of them and they're all named, like, Headcruncher and Motorboater and Mudflap, and they're all, "Yes, we are the Knights of Cybertron, but we weren't the first Transformers ever created; that was just a rumour," then they're obviously not The Thirteen and they would be different groups. It's as likely as anything else.

I seriously think the series is going to have that kind of "downer ending." One of three things is going to happen:

A) Rodimus will find the Knights of Cybertron. Regardless of whether or not they are The Thirteen (or an equivalent "First Cybertronians/First Transformers" group), they aren't all they were cracked up to be; several of them are assholes or "un-Autobotlike" or war criminals or whatever. They didn't help usher in a Golden Age and leave to spread enlightenment; they left because they fucked everything up. A1) Or, their "Golden Age" was actually an age of intergalactic war. Rome had a golden age, but it was a golden age where they conquered damn near the entire known world and enslaved thousands; maybe millions. In that case that makes them douchebags who Rodimus wouldn't want around. "I don't need your kind of help."
B) Rodimus finds a gravesite. "Here Lies The Knights Of Cybertron. Ushered in a new golden age. Spread enlightenment across the galaxies. Died heroically." They can't help Rodimus or Cybertron now. But at least they were great guys. Right? And Rodimus learned how to be a great leader/the importance of family/what it means to be a man/or an Autobot/the meaning of friendship/etc.
B1) Or, Rodimus never finds the gravesite at all. Instead, because he learned how to be a great leader/etc. he decides it doesn't matter if they find the Knights or not. He's gonna go back home and make things right on his own. The mystery of the Knights of Cybertron remains unsolved, for some other Autobot adventurer or crackpot comic book writer to explore.
C) Rodimus finds the Knights of Cybertron. They're everything they were expected to be! They really did try to usher in a new golden age and spread enlightenment and stuff. But there's a problem. Transformers are, on a "biological" level, steeped in warfare. Even their own "Golden Age" was short-lived and the Transformers quickly turned to civil war. It's how Transformers are. They can't help save Cybertron because Cybertron doesn't want to be saved.

(In fact, one could make a pretty strong case that the Knights of Cybertron can't be the literal Thirteen in this universe, since Alpha Trion is one of the Thirteen, and he's already showed up in IDW's continuity and doesn't appear to be linked to any sort of ancient group of TFs.)

Or the Alpha Trion in this universe isn't one of its members (despite Hasbro's 'multiversal singularity' BS). Or maybe he is and just hasn't been revealed as such yet.

Also possible. We won't know until they reveal who the Knights are.

Folks this is IDW where talking about. their the kings of reboots,partial reboots. hiring new writters that ignore previous writters stories/canon. Even if the 2012 IDW writters did have the knightas of cybertron be the original 13. next year in 2013 another newbie writter will erase everything the 2012 IDW wrote & decide to re-write stuff his way,with no regard to the previous writers hard work/stories/canon.

I disagree! The only time that really happened was arguably AHM. Nothing got rebooted by Costa and nothing got rebooted by Roberts or Barber in the current run.

Personally speaking the IDW TF G-1 comics are pure awful. marvel & DW wrote better TF comic stories,had no reboots & no re-writes.

Dreamwave sucked dick. Also, they got rid of the entire original miniseries they did! Or did you forget how Superion and Wheeljack died only to show up in the next series?

I might not return to buying IDW TF comics. If I do it'll be via trade paper backs that collect 6 monthly issues all in one book. perhaps it'll be easier to stomach reading the entire trade paper back in under a half hour. compared to waiting each month & rwading singular issues that leave off in cliffhanger scenarios.

It's cheaper, too!

[Sparky Prime]

Well, see, that's the thing. If they meet the Knights of Cybertron and there's only eight of them and they're all named, like, Headcruncher and Motorboater and Mudflap, and they're all, "Yes, we are the Knights of Cybertron, but we weren't the first Transformers ever created; that was just a rumour," then they're obviously not The Thirteen and they would be different groups. It's as likely as anything else.

And that doesn't matter for what I was saying. As of right now, as far as the Cybertronians are concerned, the Knights of Cybertron are the first of their kind, synonymous with the concept of the original 13. Obviously that could change, but that's neither here nor there.

[Onslaught Six]

It's "equating" them with The Thirteen Specifically that I think we kind of take issue with. Because The Thirteen used to just be a vague concept. "Oh, in the beginning, there were 13 original Transformers, the end." Now there's like, one of them was named "Megatronus Prime" and he became the Fallen and Megatron stole his name from that (LAME!) and The Fallen killed the girl one and pissed off Nexus Prime or something like that. I highly doubt they're going to be The Literal Thirteen. But we'll see.

Still say the question will remain unanswered. I think Option B is the most likely.