We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[BWprowl]

My disdain for "Beast Wars" stems from several things.
-it brought some of the worst fans (including Synjo) in to the fandom.
-it is over rated as being "perfection" despite it having many flaws.
-and despite nothing good having come of the Beast era for over a decade.

Really? We’re doing this? Because you could list that for just about any piece of TF media ever:

My disdain for “Man of Iron” stems from several things.
-it brought some of the worst fans (including Dom) in to the fandom.
-it is over rated as being “perfection” despite it having many flaws.
-and despite nothing good having come of the UK comics for over a decade.

Come on, just because a show isn’t on TV any more, that doesn’t suddenly make it a bad show. The Marvel UK comics have been old for decades, they don’t suddenly suck just because they’re old and tons of people love them. Yeah, there have been a lot of shitty TFUK comics in the last few years, it doesn’t retroactively ruin the old content. Beast Wars was a decent show and Rhinox was a cool character. Hell, I would go so far as to say that, were he not a BW character, Rhinox is exactly the sort of reliable, level-headed, workmanlike character you would LOVE. Grow up, no one thinks you’re cool for being a contrarian who hates something just because it’s popular. Quit being a hipster.

I am also sick of seeing second stringers get in to the Hall of Fame because they were damned fur suits.

That said, I am glad to see Barricade in the top slot, even if I had other preferences.

So a second-stringer getting in just because he’s got greebly details all over him is superior?

Dom
-Bay uber Beast.

Please. BW at least gave us three seasons of a cool show. Only unanimously good thing we got out of the Bayverse was a six-issue comic series, and even that hasn’t been relevant for like, five years. Reign of Starscream hasn’t done anything good in years, Dom! Why do you still like it?!

I’m sorry, but it’s this sort of spiteful, negative-for-the-sake-of-negative mentality that can bring the whole mood of the board down. Can we at least try to *pretend* that we still enjoy Transformers?

[Onslaught Six]

For what it's worth, I still say BW is a good show. I liked BM better, especially since it's a black sheep these days. (I get so angry when people say crap like "BM DOESN'T EXIST!" That's really childish.)

[BWprowl]

I liked BM better, especially since it's a black sheep these days.

See what I mean? Friggin' hipsters. No, seriously though, I get what you mean. I loved BM as well, though in my mind, it and BW are pretty much one and the same, so I don't even think in terms of liking one more than the other.

(I get so angry when people say crap like "BM DOESN'T EXIST!" That's really childish.)

God dammit, this! I am continually amazed that there are still people around who think like this, and think they get some Kool Kids Kred for shitting all over BM just because of stuff like "Hurr durr Rattrap acted different".

[Dominic]

Hell, I would go so far as to say that, were he not a BW character, Rhinox is exactly the sort of reliable, level-headed, workmanlike character you would LOVE.

I like characters for how useful they are or have been, not for traits that I would praise in a real person. Hell, many useful characters have traits I would abhor in a real person.

Yeah, there have been a lot of shitty TFUK comics in the last few years, it doesn’t retroactively ruin the old content.

Yeah, but if all you heard people talking about was "Transfomers UK is awesome", you would get pretty fucking sick of it. BW is what G1 was 10~15 years ago, over and finished. There might be some good stuff in there. But, dammit the fandom needs to move the hell on.

Only unanimously good thing we got out of the Bayverse was a six-issue comic series, and even that hasn’t been relevant for like, five years.

And, you do not hear me talking about it at any length now do you? I like "Reign of Starscream" because I like good comics. It goes in that larger pile, not the "Reign of Starscream is awesome" pile..

Can we at least try to *pretend* that we still enjoy Transformers?

I am not going to argue for my fan cred. Because really, who the fuck cares? Maybe I am a terrible fan what with all that time and effort I put in to reading and comics, even praising them more often than not.

Hey, maybe we could go hash out the good and bad about the 3rd season of BW, (including "Go With the Flow" and various bits of Mainframe's whimsy) again....for the umpteenth time in 10+ years. While we are at it, we could labour over "Beast Machines" some more.

And, yes, clearly the fact I am a fan of a corporate owned franchise like "Transformers" shows that I am totally a contrarian hipster, rather than somebody who just happens to like some of property while disliking other parts of it. I am clearly working myself here.

Yeah, we could talk about all of those things, in this thread or in new threads.

Instead, I am just going to settle for asking JT to pull all of my votes out of this year' s contest and pledging to not vote in next year's preliminaries.


Dom

[Onslaught Six]

and various bits of Mainframe's whimsy

I still love how you randomly hate whatever it is you deem as "whimsy." It's almost as bad as Deathy deeming things as "kiddie."

That said, a lot of that crap was Hasbro saying the show needed to be more kid-friendly.

Instead, I am just going to settle for asking JT to pull all of my votes out of this year' s contest and pledging to not vote in next year's preliminaries.

You like to do things in extremes. I still remember when you stepped down from being a mod, as if there was a huge responsibility!

[Dominic]

Point taken about blaming Hasbro rather than Mainframe.

Very often, whimsy comes across as being obnoxious or disruptive in a failed attempt at humour.


The moderator question: The real reason that I am replying.

Look at that in context. It was the forum's first flame war in its year and half of existing, and one of not too many even including the BWTF days...and moderator was not only involved, but me being a moderator was made an issue by two people in public comments. (I ain't naming names. But, the comments were still up last time I checked about 2 years back, in case anybody cares.)

I gave up being a moderator to preserve the integrity of the board. What do you think of boards that are seen as having corrupt moderators? (You know the boards I am thinking of. Lets not name names or anthing though.)



Dom

[JediTricks]

So, the question has arisen, what would our top 5 results look like if Dom had removed himself entirely from the voting?

The answer is thus, we go from this:

1. Barricade
2. Rhinox
3. Prowl
4. Wheeljack (tied)
5. Mirage (tied)

to this:

1. Rhinox
2. Barricade
3. Wheeljack
4. Arcee (G1) (tied)
5. Sky-byte (tied)

(and Blackarachnia would have been 6th place, off by just 1 point).

By the way, if you're wondering what changed with my last-minute Rhinox vote, the only thing that changed was Rhinox going from tied for 2nd to not tied, the character was always going to be either 2nd or 3rd on our list based on the initial voting due to that tie.

[Onslaught Six]

Well, there, Dom, aren't you glad you didn't do that?

[BWprowl]

I like characters for how useful they are or have been, not for traits that I would praise in a real person. Hell, many useful characters have traits I would abhor in a real person.

Your documented love for characters like Acid Storm notwithstanding, apparently.

Yeah, but if all you heard people talking about was "Twansforumahs UK is awsum", you would get pretty fucking sick of it. BW is what G1 was 10~15 years ago, over and finished. There might be some good stuff in there. But, dammit the fandom needs to move the hell on.

I don’t know what places you frequent, but it seems like I hear about TFUK being super-awesome about as much as I hear about BW being super-awesome. Or Animated being super-awesome. Or Prime. Or LSotW. Surprise, Transfans like to talk about cool Transformers series!

(In all honesty, I actually haven’t seen someone raving about BW being awesome in years. Raving against BM because they think it sucked, sure, but I don’t know where you’re going that people only go on and on about how cool BW is.)

And, you do not hear me talking about it at any length now do you? I like "Reign of Starscream" because I like good comics. It goes in that larger pile, not the "Reign of Starscream is awesome" pile.

I suppose it’s impossible for the majority of people voting for Dinobot, and Waspinator, and Rhinox to have Beast Wars on their ‘cool TV show’ pile? Of course, all of them are obviously tunnel-visioned furries who’ve never experienced any other fiction in their life.

I am not going to argue for my fan cred. Because really, who the fuck cares? Yeah, I am a terrible fan. Oh noes, maybe the way I look at ficshunal chawuctuhs is indicative of how I treat real people.

Hey, maybe we could go hash out the good and bad about the 3rd season of BW, (including "Go With the Flow" and various bits of Mainframe's whimsy) again....for the umpteenth time in 10+ years. While we are at it, we could labour over "Beast Machines" some more.

I’m just saying, instead of going out of your way to broadcast how much you hate BW and how it’s ruining your life, you could…just avoid the threads and so forth relating to BW, and talk about what you *do* like, what *does* bring you enjoyment. No one’s making you read any of the apparently thousands of repetitive BW threads that are up on every TF forum at any given moment.

If you don’t like Bed, Bath, & Beyond…just don’t go into Bed, Bath, & Beyond.

Or just kickstart a thread about BW on /co/. They savaged the series the other day.

And, yes, clearly the fact I am a fan of a corporate owned franchise like "Transformers" shows that I am totally a contrarian hipster, rather than somebody who just happens to like some of property while disliking other parts of it. I am clearly working myself here.

What I said mainly came out of the reason you hate it (and you’re the one who got upset with hypothetical fans who liked Chaos theory ‘for the wrong reason’ so). You can’t just ignore BW/put the episodes you do like on the ‘cool TV show’ pile. You have to adamantly, vigorously thrash it every time someone even mentions TFs turning into animals, all because…some of the fans are annoying and eight issues of a comic book sucked?

Man, if I discounted a franchise for entertainment because of a terrible fanbase and crappy later installments, I’d never be able to enjoy the old Sonic the Hedgehog games. And I wouldn’t want to live like that.

Instead, I am just going to settle for asking JT to pull all of my votes out of this year' s contest and pledging to not vote in next year's preliminaries.

Dom

I think I’m just saying…chill out. Yeah, Beast Wars is popular and overrated. That’s no reason to throw out spiteful, knowingly-sabotaging votes, then saying you’re QUITTING THE HALL OF FAME FOREVER! Come on, we’re just voting on which fictional transforming alien robot we think is the coolest. There is zero reason to take it so seriously.

[JediTricks]

Dude, bulleting is not that far out of order. I almost just voted "Prowl" and "Mirage", and left the other two blank.

How would I have been able to incorporate that into the existing voting? The system only remains fair so long as everybody gets 10 points spread across 4 figures, if you leave 2 characters off then it's entirely unusable and unfair to the rest of the group. Moreover by leaving Wheeljack and Rhinox off your list, you would have doomed Prowl and Mirage to the lowest averages that way.

My disdain for "Beast Wars" stems from several things.
-it brought some of the worst fans (including Synjo) in to the fandom.
-it is over rated as being "perfection" despite it having many flaws.
-and despite nothing good having come of the Beast era for over a decade.

So, your disdain for Beast Wars has nothing to do with the content. That's immature and smacks of prejudice. Judge the material on its own merits. You know why BW hasn't had anything good come of it for a decade? Changes in brand management. I don't like that they show constant disdain for transformers turning into voice recorders and cameras, but I certainly don't hold it against Reflector and Soundwave simply because TPTB have taken the brand in other directions.

I am also sick of seeing second stringers get in to the Hall of Fame because they were damned fur suits.

Bumblebee surely never did anything important enough to warrant being called a "first stringer" until these awful movies, yet you're not bitching about that.

-Bay uber Beast.

That alone proves how much your bigotry has damaged your mind, you'd cozy up to Bay.

You've totally pissed on my excitement for our site participating in Hall of Fame, we ran a democratic vote, that means we all get an equal voice even if nobody gets everything they want.

Come on, just because a show isn’t on TV any more, that doesn’t suddenly make it a bad show. The Marvel UK comics have been old for decades, they don’t suddenly suck just because they’re old and tons of people love them. Yeah, there have been a lot of shitty TFUK comics in the last few years, it doesn’t retroactively ruin the old content. Beast Wars was a decent show and Rhinox was a cool character. Hell, I would go so far as to say that, were he not a BW character, Rhinox is exactly the sort of reliable, level-headed, workmanlike character you would LOVE. Grow up, no one thinks you’re cool for being a contrarian who hates something just because it’s popular. Quit being a hipster.

Yeah, Rhinox was always one of my favorites for just those reasons. I had been out of touch with Transformers for a few years, didn't watch the show at first, so I missed Rhinox when he first shipped, and when I was collecting the figures and watching the show I couldn't find him or Dinobot. It was only thanks to the Fox Kids re-releases that I was finally able to get the figure, and he was so fun, his personality comes right through from the show into the figure. Hell, I'd vote for Rhinox over Waspinator or Cheetor in a heartbeat, even over Blackarachnia (though I still say Tarantulas was a better character ).

Moreover, compare Rhinox the character to Barricade the character... oh wait, you can't because Barricade barely has a personality, he's a Bayformer.

So a second-stringer getting in just because he’s got greebly details all over him is superior?

Dom say "trukk fanz not munky fanzz!!!1!"

I’m sorry, but it’s this sort of spiteful, negative-for-the-sake-of-negative mentality that can bring the whole mood of the board down. Can we at least try to *pretend* that we still enjoy Transformers?

Yeah, that's how it seems to me too, I'd like to look at what we have in common, it's why I keep spending money month after month to keep this site alive, to talk to my TF friends.

For what it's worth, I still say BW is a good show. I liked BM better, especially since it's a black sheep these days. (I get so angry when people say crap like "BM DOESN'T EXIST!" That's really childish.)

Wow, people really say that? I liked BW more than BM, but I certainly couldn't say it didn't exist. Even Headmasters, BW Neo, and other weird non-US stuff exists, whether or not I like it. That's why I don't go onto more hardcore TF boards I guess, I stick to conversations with more open-minded folks and casual-collector folks.

Hell, I would go so far as to say that, were he not a BW character, Rhinox is exactly the sort of reliable, level-headed, workmanlike character you would LOVE.

I like characters for how useful they are or have been, not for traits that I would praise in a real person. Hell, many useful characters have traits I would abhor in a real person.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean here. Rhinox was a great character, he was Primal's rock at times, he was both zen and kickass. And then in BM he ends up having his robo-humanity taken from him to reveal that his ideals could make him more evil and dangerous even than Megatron himself.

Yeah, but if all you heard people talking about was "Twansforumahs UK is awsum", you would get pretty fucking sick of it. BW is what G1 was 10~15 years ago, over and finished. There might be some good stuff in there. But, dammit the fandom needs to move the hell on.

Says the guy voting for Bay shit, which is just an uber-angry version of G1. And G1 is so over and finished, might I add, that you guys are still buying comics based off of it - just last week you were throwing a fit about not being able to find a G1-inspired comic book. Get over the fan noise, it's NOISE, not signal. I thought you had a stronger personality than to be swayed by others like that.


Look, I don't want to make this "dump on Dom" day, especially as I have to grab a shower and run. Dom is an integral part of our community, his voice and presence is as important as any other here. But I am still a little chafed at my going out of my way to give someone a voice in the process only to have vitriol thrown loudly back in my face for it, so I'm going to make my post here because what should have been something proud for me and our group now has become contentious and ugly, and it sucks all the fun out of this. Transformers isn't some important event in human history, it's not Shakespeare or Chaucer or Dostoyevsky, it's just a children's toy and its surrounding media, we're lucky we live in an age where we have enough free time and available discretionary funds to make that into our shared hobby, and Hall of Fame is just a meaningless little title meant to recognize the interests of those fans.