More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[BWprowl]

Roche's new art style looks like shit. There, I said it. Yes, I know that he has to grow and experiment. But, it is going to be an ordeal for us all while Roche gets to the next level. Right now, the book is hideous to look at. (I cannot even tell who some of the characters are.)

Well, there had to be something in there we disagreed on!

Seriously Dom, what’s your ish with more dynamic art styles? I understand that art preferences are fiercely subjective and that of all things this is something I have no chance of changing your mind on, ever, but why do you seem to immediately dismiss anything that’s not ‘realistic’ or over-detailed? Do you hate stuff like Darwyn Cooke’s work as well? Brian Lee O’Malley?

Personally, I love this sort of thing, and the variety the different art styles inject into the comics. Makes me wish Hasbro had a DC Direct-style line, so we could get toys of characters in different art styles (I would still kill for a toy of ‘Spotlight’ Kup).

(Only character I had trouble identifying was Red Alert; I thought he was Cloudburst, initially. Everyone else is pretty recognizable, and even then it’s not like they HAVE to be on-G1-model because NEW UNIVERSE HEYHEY!!)

[Dominic]

Coke's work is at least clean.

Generally, "animated style" looks kind of lazy and under-detailed. I am less worried about realism than craft.

Roche's new style just seems sloppy, not unlike what I would see at the art fair in a community center.

Witness my love for Geoff Senior art. Hardly realistic, but it looks clean and polished.

And, I do agree that they do not need to be G1 accurate.


Dom
-not dropping the book for this or anything.

[BWprowl]

Coke's work is at least clean.

Generally, "animated style" looks kind of lazy and under-detailed. I am less worried about realism than craft.

Roche's new style just seems sloppy, not unlike what I would see at the art fair in a community center.

Witness my love for Geoff Senior art. Hardly realistic, but it looks clean and polished.

Incidentally, I'm more of a Reed fan.

Anyway, yeah, I can kinda see where you’re coming from, when you put it that way. I mean, I still like the art myself, and can enjoy a ‘sketchier’ style in general, but I can understand your take on it.

Kinda like how the art on Hearts of Steel, while technically being very detailed and well-designed, still looked like muddy ass to me. Then, I’ve since realized that that one was more the colorist’s fault than Guido’s. You’ve gotta praise/haze the right people on these things, even some great art pops even better thanks to great colors. For instance, check out War Within, which had colors by…Dave Cheung? The hell?

Spoiler

If you thought this thing was staying on-topic for a whole month before the next issue came out, you’re probably new here. Though there’ll be plenty more to talk about as some of you other guys get/read the first issue and violently disagree with me and others about it.

[Onslaught Six]

Who's Roberts' fancharacter?

Rung, Autobot psychologist. You might remember him from the LSotW profiles.

I never read the single issues, so I never got the profiles.

As an aside, Rung wasn't hyped up to shit by IDW. If Drift had simply not been mentioned prior to AHM's release, then nothing would have happened, and fans would probably be asking Hasbro when the toy was going to come out.

And people like me, who just want a decent Transformers story without feeling like particular characters are catering/pandering to me are left out in the cold.

I really do like the sound of the concept for RID. I just hope the execution is halfway decent.

Honestly, I like to see more obscure characters than the mainstream guys at this point simply because I'm tired of them. (And, let's face it, 86 and I have *always* been on that weird fringe line of TF, preferring to delve into the more obscure and offbeat elements than anything else. I'm the guy who will take Diaclone catalogue artwork over anything that looks like Sunbow.)

I'm planning on grabbing this this weekend, since it, Mega Man and my TMNT Michelangelo micro hit last month. That's already three books and we have plenty to go on my list...fuck me.

[Shockwave]

In all fairness I actually think "the hobby" was better 20 years ago before all the fanwank. I mean seriously, it was a time when David Willis didn't mean anything to anybody, the fan club wasn't around and writing bad fiction and we were still getting awesome stories from Furman and Budiansky. I mean, really, I think it's more the fans and their respective influences on the hobby since that have been ruining it. I know Dom certainly feels that way, having had several iterations ruined by overly obnoxious fandom. Personally, I think I like Gomess' approach the best where you just enjoy what you liked and have minimal contact with "the fandom".

[Gomess]

Personally, I think I like Gomess' approach the best where you just enjoy what you liked and have minimal contact with "the fandom".

Well cheers Trekwave, my only annoyance is the fandom tends to brand you a "GeeWunner" or "toyhack" for such a position. I can only shake my head, really. You guys only have to look at how little I actually discuss recent TF things to get a perspective on what kind of a TF fan I am.

By all rights, I shouldn't even be on a discussion forum, but I'm attached to you lot and still enjoy discussing what I know. But "TF" now is SO different to the TF I grew up on, I see no point in "playing catch-up". And I have enough friends who feel the same way (and would never DREAM of signing up to a discussion forum for fear of being branded a nerd) that I know I'm not completely nuts.

Soyeah, I'm a casual fan, or a GeeWunner, it's fine.

[Dominic]

As an aside, Rung wasn't hyped up to shit by IDW. If Drift had simply not been mentioned prior to AHM's release, then nothing would have happened, and fans would probably be asking Hasbro when the toy was going to come out.

Some guys, like Roche or Furman, get more of a pass than others.

"Last Stand of the Wreckers" is not praised for being good so much as many like the fact it used obscure UK characters. And, if Costa write it, then fans would have whined about it using obscure characters.

"the hobby" was better 20 years ago before all the fanwank

Not sure why you used quotes, but I partially agree.

It is a trade-off.

On the one hand, the hobby was not self-referential or self-reverential as it is now. On the other hand, it was not much of anything. 20 years ago, the G1 comic ended after lasting far longer than anybody thought it would have.

The cartoon was being run at odd hours in some areas, and not at all in others. The toys were down to Action Masters and a few K-Mart exclusive repacks of Pretenders minus their shells. (The franchise was where PCC was during the middle of last year.)

That actually set the stage for the fandom being adjusted to looking backward and enjoying the hobby in the past tense, which is a huge issue for more than one fandom. I tend to think that fandoms become more insular during down times. (Going to post about this down in the general discussion forums.)

As much as I hate the Beast era, it did force things forward.

G2 was a good attempt, but we know that it failed. That was a bad time to be a fan.

where you just enjoy what you *liked*

The emphasis on the verb is mine, but the tense ain't.

Well cheers Trekwave, my only annoyance is the fandom tends to brand you a "GeeWunner" or "toyhack" for such a position. I can only shake my head, really. You guys only have to look at how little I actually discuss recent TF things to get a perspective on what kind of a TF fan I am.

I am not saying that "you are not a good fan", or that not being a good fan makes you morally dubious.

But, I am not going to pretend that enjoying a hobby largely in the past tense makes a hell of a lot of sense. I live in Boston. Up until 2004, it was beyond me how anybody could have any affection or regard for the Red Sox, who were one of the worst teams in the country. Even if I were a sports fan, or specifically a baseball fan, I would not have liked the Red Sox. They sucked. I would hear adults (some of whom were not old enough to remember pre-shit Red Sox) talking about the good old days, and it blew my mind how much weight they were giving it. (Granted, I could not have articulated it as I am now. But, you see what I mean.)

If I stop buying/reading new comics (or older comics that I have not read before), then I am not going to call myself a comics fan. I used to be a huge "Captain America" fan. But, guess what? I ain't a fan now. Ditto for "Batman".



Dom
-has a pull list of 8 books this year.....

[Gomess]

I am not going to pretend that enjoying a hobby largely in the past tense makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Well then, maybe the difference is the fact that I don't consider TF a "hobby". It's just something I grew up on and I still think is cool. I don't devote anywhere near as much of my time to it as you do, with customs and comic pull lists and the like (I know, they don't "consume a lot of time", but you know what I mean). But as you said, that doesn't make me any less of a fan. Just a different kind of fan.

[Dominic]

Well, here is the thing, in quantitative terms, you are less of a fan. That is not to say that you are a bad fan, or morally suspect. (No, you are morally suspect for other reasons, erm...uh....)

But, yeah, by the numbers, you are less of a fan because you enjoy less of the hobby, going so far as to say it is not a hobby for you. So, in that sense, I would reasonably say "Gomess is less of a fan of TF than I am".


Dom
-going to post that thing on "down times" right now....

[Shockwave]

While the numbers thing makes sense to a degree, I wouldn't really actually say that it necessarily makes Gomess less of fan just because he chooses not to enjoy certain parts of the franchise. I for example am also not currently enjoying any of the toys comics or dvds but that's mostly because of financial issues. But, simply quantifying doesn't really mean "more" or "less" of a fan.

Having said that, I do still have some of my xmas money left so I think I am actually going to get the current issue and catch up on the remainder of last year.

As for enjoying a hobby in the past tense, what doesn't make sense? I mean, for me, the whole appeal of Transformers started with what we got back in 84. So for me, that's the part that I enjoy the most. The toys, comics and even the terrible cartoon from that era. Thanks to reissues, reprints and dvds, fans like myself can still enjoy that past in the current day. And if one wishes to enjoy that and only that then they are free to do so. For me personally, it's certainly a big part of it (to the point where I'm unwilling to part with certain things) but I have branched out to enjoy other parts of the franchise for other reasons. But as far as interacting with the fandom, I still think Gomess' approach is the best. Post here and nowhere else cause the rest of the fandom are dicks and you guys aren't.