Transformers - ongoing series

[Sparky Prime]

The point is that Spike is a thug. He is good at killing things. He wants to kill TFs for personal reasons, and he wants to do it his way. And, depending on his mood, he is willing to use Cybertronian tech, other Cybertronians themselves, or simple brute force (and vials of really strong acid) to do it.

The point is Spike is a soldier. Of course he's good at killing things, but he's supposed to follow orders and a chain of command, not go AWOL for his own personal vendettas. And for a guy traumatized by Cybertronians, to the point he essentially wants to kill them with his bare hands and clearly willing to go AWOL to do so, it doesn't make much sense he'd make a deal with one in order to get Cybertronian technology.

[Mako Crab]

Wow, the wiki is posting summaries based on their childish misreading? Please Crab, tell me that a wiki that is run by a bunch of self-indulgent man-children is not driving your comic buying decisions?

Nah, I stopped getting the ongoing after I had personally bought and read the first 13 issues. It just wasn't doing anything for me. As for the wiki entry, perhaps you can tell me how close to or off the mark they were:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Police_Action_Pa ... ce_at_Eden

Speaking of the wiki- I was looking up Primacron's Assistant since people were talking about that in the G1 season 3 thread. I had no idea what a mess had been made of his story with the japanese continuity. Now he's the Oracle/Vector Sigma *and* Primus? Good grief. I liked it better when he was just a gorilla bot with some vague, unspecified connection to the Matrix.

[Onslaught Six]

How aware is Spike that he was dealing with a Decepticon? I haven't read it but the summary makes it out that he was talking to this Ben Simpson dude, who is basically Swindle's Mustache Man.

[Dominic]

As I read it, Spike dealt with Swindle, not Simpson. Spike would likely have known what Swindle was, but would not have cared.

Bottom line, there would be no reason for Spike to look at Cybertronian tech and say "ewww, robo cooties". He was never written as being that much of a sissy.

[Sparky Prime]

Bottom line, there would be no reason for Spike to look at Cybertronian tech and say "ewww, robo cooties". He was never written as being that much of a sissy.

You're missing the point. It's not that Spike would be a "sissy" for not taking the deal with Swindle. The bottom line is that he hates the Transformers so much, it doesn't seem at all likely he would have made that deal in the first place. In the opening of issue 8 he says "I've always hated machines. The ones that make you stronger. The ones that make you more vulnerable. Not that can't be useful. Recently, they've proven very useful. I just don't feel comfortable with them." Clearly, he's not against using the tech, but that doesn't make it more likely that he'd have dealings with a Cybertronian in order to get it.

[BWprowl]

You're missing the point. It's not that Spike would be a "sissy" for not taking the deal with Swindle. The bottom line is that he hates the Transformers so much, it doesn't seem at all likely he would have made that deal in the first place. In the opening of issue 8 he says "I've always hated machines. The ones that make you stronger. The ones that make you more vulnerable. Not that can't be useful. Recently, they've proven very useful. I just don't feel comfortable with them." Clearly, he's not against using the tech, but that doesn't make it more likely that he'd have dealings with a Cybertronian in order to get it.

Y'know, it's entirely possible (and likely) that Spike was planning on stabbing Swindle in the back once all the dealings were done. Just because he bought some stuff off of him doesn't mean he liked or was loyal to the guy (in fact, he out-and-out tells Prowl that this is how he feels about pretty much all Cybertronians). Just like his 'alliance' with the Autobots, he'll use a connection with Swindle to get what he needs to protect his planet/race from the larger, overall Transformer threat, but he's still looking to be able to get rid of all of them in the long run.

Just like you quoted, he found Swindle 'useful' but still 'hated' him.

[Sparky Prime]

Y'know, it's entirely possible (and likely) that Spike was planning on stabbing Swindle in the back once all the dealings were done. Just because he bought some stuff off of him doesn't mean he liked or was loyal to the guy (in fact, he out-and-out tells Prowl that this is how he feels about pretty much all Cybertronians).

I'm not saying Spike would feel any sense of loyalty to Swindle just because they made a deal. What I'm saying is that with Spike's mindset of hatred towards the Transformers, I don't find it very believable Spike would even talk to Swindle in the first place, let alone make a deal with each other. After all, the early issues of the Ongoing and the Coda issues shows the humans to pretty much have this policy of 'shoot first and don't ask questions'.

Just like you quoted, he found Swindle 'useful' but still 'hated' him.

Spike also found a vile of acid pretty useful. So what does he even need Swindle for?

[BWprowl]

Spike also found a vile of acid pretty useful. So what does he even need Swindle for?

Big exo-suits for his men that even the odds a little more than vials of acid could.

I'm not saying Spike would feel any sense of loyalty to Swindle just because they made a deal. What I'm saying is that with Spike's mindset of hatred towards the Transformers, I don't find it very believable Spike would even talk to Swindle in the first place, let alone make a deal with each other. After all, the early issues of the Ongoing and the Coda issues shows the humans to pretty much have this policy of 'shoot first and don't ask questions'.

Dude, Spike talks to Prowl and all the other Autobots *all the time* (and I’d argue that of all the Transformers, Spike hates Prowl the most. More than Swindle, at any rate.). He may hate the things, but he’s not so blinded by hatred that he’s incapable of even speaking to them for his own benefit. Come on, now.

[Sparky Prime]

Big exo-suits for his men that even the odds a little more than vials of acid could.

I dunno about that... Spike took out Scrapper with just the acid pretty easily, all things considered.

Dude, Spike talks to Prowl and all the other Autobots *all the time* (and I’d argue that of all the Transformers, Spike hates Prowl the most. More than Swindle, at any rate.). He may hate the things, but he’s not so blinded by hatred that he’s incapable of even speaking to them for his own benefit. Come on, now.

You're taking the argument out of context. Spike doesn't start to talk to the Autobots until after Optimus came to them and surrendered, which eventually lead to them opening up a dialog and an alliance with the Autobots. Spike's deal with Swindle, however, would have taken place within the 2 year gap between AHM and the ongoing, before that happened. And as we see in the early issues of the Ongoing, they really don't give the Transformers a chance to talk before they start shooting. I don't see Spike making a deal with any Transformer under those circumstances.

[Dominic]

The implication is that he bought the guns from Swindle.

Spike hating TFs does not mean that he is going to be a petulant child about dealing with them. If he can use their tech against them, why would he be shy about doing so? That said, I do not think that Spike had any specific hatred for Prowl beyond being annoyed at the interrogation.


Dom
-and really, the hatred was not out of line post AHM.