Headmasters discussion

[andersonh1]

So much for watching these after season 3. My curiousity got the better of me, since I"ve never seen this series at all. And hey, my seven year old daughter enjoyed watching a few episodes with me, subtitles and all. She does like to read, so I think she enjoyed the exercise of reading the subtitles to understand what's going on.

And these Japanese episode titles crack me up sometimes, they're so literal.

Four Warriors Come out of the Sky
The first thing that strikes me about this episode is that the animation is a huge step up from season 3 of the US show. It's not bad at all for tv animation. The characters are generally on-model, and move fairly well. There's a ton of action, almost non-stop. And the second thing I really enjoy is seeing so many of the season 1 and 2 character interacting with the later characters, something we rarely saw on the US show. Prowl, Smokescreen and Jazz all show up, along with Sideswipe and Hound.

So Galvatron's after Vector Sigma, and he sends out his new Headmaster troops. An all-out battle is waged on Cybertron, so they call to Earth for help. Wheelie and Daniel beat Trypticon (really, no kidding), and the Autobots are losing when (as the title indicates) four warriors come to Cybertron and turn the tide of the battle.

If you squint (metaphorically) this show could easily fit into continuity with the American series. There are one or two things that don't quite fit (such as Prowl's survival), but otherwise it all feels very familiar. It's nice to finally get to watch it.

The Mystery of Planet Master
One thing I"ve already noticed after only two episodes: the storytelling is different. The show seems much more serialized than the US show, as this episode picks up right where the last one left off, and there's no self-contained plot for the episode. It just adds a new plot thread or two, and advances other plot threads. The Matrix is still empty from being used at the end of ROOP, and Hot Rod goes to Earth to find it. And since when did Soundwave and Blaster get such personal animosity towards each other? That came out of nowhere. They kill each other in a fight, though since I know about the Soundblaster toy repaint, I'm reasonably certain they'll both turn back up at some point.

It's nice to watch this show and see so many familiar characters. One thing the translators got right with the subtitles was using the American names for the characters. So Optimus Prime doesn't end up as "Convoy" for example, even if that's what the character on the screen is saying.

I can't quite decide about the serialized storytelling, where each episode is pretty much just a chapter in the larger story. It certainly keeps me wanting to come back and see what happens next, since there's very little closure, but it's hard to review individual episodes since there's no self-contained story. I like what I"ve seen so far though.

[Gomess]

If you squint (metaphorically) this show could easily fit into continuity with the American series.

Discounting the Headmasters' origins, presumably? >_>

The show seems much more serialized than the US show, as this episode picks up right where the last one left off, and there's no self-contained plot for the episode.

Headmasters opens with a 3- or 4-parter (I forget), just like Season 3. Don't be fooled, the rest is almost entirely episodic.

And since when did Soundwave and Blaster get such personal animosity towards each other? That came out of nowhere.

Ah come on, every kid pitted them against each other. Also Auto-Bop, Season 2. ...That said, where are you getting the personal animosity from? As far as I recall, Soundwave just kills him 'cos he was his only obstacle to stopping Hot Rod. I guess it is a big deal when a Transformer dies in the cartoon, but still. I suspect the subtitlers took a little poetic license with the script if it seems overtly personal.

[andersonh1]

If you squint (metaphorically) this show could easily fit into continuity with the American series.

Discounting the Headmasters' origins, presumably? >_>

Yeah, that too. If you ignore "The Rebirth", there's no problem at all with their origins, of course.

And since when did Soundwave and Blaster get such personal animosity towards each other? That came out of nowhere.

Ah come on, every kid pitted them against each other. Also Auto-Bop, Season 2. ...That said, where are you getting the personal animosity from? As far as I recall, Soundwave just kills him 'cos he was his only obstacle to stopping Hot Rod. I guess it is a big deal when a Transformer dies in the cartoon, but still. I suspect the subtitlers took a little poetic license with the script if it seems overtly personal.

I can't really say, not being familiar with the original scripts or wording. But Soundwave and Blaster encounter each other twice in the episode, and sic each other's tapes on the other. And the way they threaten each other sounds pretty personal. "We need to settle this, right now", or "once and for all", or something along those lines. I certainly read it as some personal animosity between the two characters. It could have started at Auto-Bop, sure, but there's no indication at any other point that Soundwave has it in personally for Blaster.

[Mirage]

I think the feeling of animosity is mostly from the ferocity of the fight. Limbs are flying! It's like Michael Bay directed that one scene, except it's less sun-drenched and much more steadily shot.

[Gomess]

"We need to settle this, right now", or "once and for all", or something along those lines.

Mm, that's subtitling though. I'd wager that it was subbed by fans, and fans tend to be... less than subjective... on issues like this. I dunno, I'd have to dig the episode out again, unless there's anyone else who understands the Japanese that can remind me what they actually say?

And of course, as you pointed out, it has more to do with selling two new remolds than it does the story. =3

I look forward to your reaction to some of Headmasters' more "controversial" episodes, like Ultra Magnus **** and My Friend Sixshot.

[Onslaught Six]

It's nice to watch this show and see so many familiar characters. One thing the translators got right with the subtitles was using the American names for the characters. So Optimus Prime doesn't end up as "Convoy" for example, even if that's what the character on the screen is saying.

This...is a slippery slope. I'm okay with Optimus Prime being called Optimus Prime--because he's Optimus Prime--but I'll be Goddamned if they try to refer to Ginrai as the same. I know they screwed around with Fort Max's names (Fortress is Cerebros now? Groan.) but thankfully for Headmasters, most of the guys have the same name in Japan and America. Masterforce will be the trial, I guess.

[Gomess]

It's nice to watch this show and see so many familiar characters. One thing the translators got right with the subtitles was using the American names for the characters. So Optimus Prime doesn't end up as "Convoy" for example, even if that's what the character on the screen is saying.

This...is a slippery slope. I'm okay with Optimus Prime being called Optimus Prime--because he's Optimus Prime--but I'll be Goddamned if they try to refer to Ginrai as the same. I know they screwed around with Fort Max's names (Fortress is Cerebros now? Groan.) but thankfully for Headmasters, most of the guys have the same name in Japan and America. Masterforce will be the trial, I guess.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why subtitling it as Convoy would be an issue. I mean, that's his name in the show. All it'd take is a quick note to explain that Convoy is what Optimus Prime is called in Japan the first time the name is used... Just a stickler for accuracy rather than "the easy option", I guess.

But by the same token, I hate it when subbers assume their audience knows Japanese, If that were true, why would they need subtitles? So I'm not saying he should be subtitled as "Convoy Soushireikan", but "Commander Convoy" can't be too hard.

It does actually irk me when I hear a character say a name but the subtitles say something different, particularly the Scorponok / Zarak conundrum in Headmasters. Bleh.

[Ok, found the scenes, here we go! When they meet at the Space Bridge, the following is said:]
Blaster: "Darn you, Soundwave!"
Soundwave: "Take this. ... Broadcast, this [fight] will be settled later."
Blaster: "If that's what you want!"

[And when they meet at the North Pole, this:]
Soundwave: "Broadcast, let's settle that [fight] now."
Blaster: "If that's what you want!"

Now, maybe it's because I grew up on anime, but these exchanges are nothing out of the ordinary for characters who happen to be on opposite sides in a fight. It's a little hard to tell, with the characters having no surnames, and the whole show clearly still trying to follow in S3's footsteps (unlike Masterforce and Victory), but I see nothing personal here.

Sure, they end up killing each other, but that's so they could sell new toys. =/

[andersonh1]

It's nice to watch this show and see so many familiar characters. One thing the translators got right with the subtitles was using the American names for the characters. So Optimus Prime doesn't end up as "Convoy" for example, even if that's what the character on the screen is saying.

This...is a slippery slope. I'm okay with Optimus Prime being called Optimus Prime--because he's Optimus Prime--but I'll be Goddamned if they try to refer to Ginrai as the same. I know they screwed around with Fort Max's names (Fortress is Cerebros now? Groan.) but thankfully for Headmasters, most of the guys have the same name in Japan and America. Masterforce will be the trial, I guess.

Ginrai's in the next series after Headmasters, right? I'd be willing to bet if that makes it to DVD that he'll be Optimus Prime since that's what the toy was named here. But who can say? The character isn't the same, so maybe they won't go that route.

When it comes to giving the characters their American names rather than Japanese, that makes sense. The DVDs are for the audience in this country, and the characters aren't known by their Japanese names here, even if the fan audience is aware of them. If I'm watching a character I've always known as "Optimus Prime" on the screen, I'd rather see him referred to by that name, even if the original show used the Japanese name Convoy. Would I be offended by the original names? No, but it wouldn't be my preference.

I suspect Hasbro had something to say about that as well, since it's a cartoon featuring their product. They want the names to reflect the characters as they appeared in the North American market, since the DVD is being marketed here. Hence the smaller robot that forms the head of Fortess Maximus being named "Cerebros" since that's what the figure was named. Hasbro is matching the animated characters with the toy counterpart.

It makes sense to me, and as I said, it's my preferred approach.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why subtitling it as Convoy would be an issue. I mean, that's his name in the show. All it'd take is a quick note to explain that Convoy is what Optimus Prime is called in Japan the first time the name is used... Just a stickler for accuracy rather than "the easy option", I guess.

But by the same token, I hate it when subbers assume their audience knows Japanese, If that were true, why would they need subtitles? So I'm not saying he should be subtitled as "Convoy Soushireikan", but "Commander Convoy" can't be too hard.

See above. Hasbro/Shout Factory are producing the DVDs for an audience who knows Optimus Prime rather than Convoy, so I think it makes sense.

[Ok, found the scenes, here we go! When they meet at the Space Bridge, the following is said:]
Blaster: "Darn you, Soundwave!"
Soundwave: "Take this. ... Broadcast, this [fight] will be settled later."
Blaster: "If that's what you want!"

[And when they meet at the North Pole, this:]
Soundwave: "Broadcast, let's settle that [fight] now."
Blaster: "If that's what you want!"

Now, maybe it's because I grew up on anime, but these exchanges are nothing out of the ordinary for characters who happen to be on opposite sides in a fight. It's a little hard to tell, with the characters having no surnames, and the whole show clearly still trying to follow in S3's footsteps (unlike Masterforce and Victory), but I see nothing personal here.

I rarely watch anime, so I'm seeing it simply as a continuation of the G1 series with which I'm familiar. Interesting how we have different perspectives on it. But I can't really recall another instance in G1 up to this point where two characters call each other out like this and then proceed to finish each other off. Other than Prime and Megatron of course, who always seem to take things personally. Maybe I'm forgetting.

Sure, they end up killing each other, but that's so they could sell new toys. =/

Well, of course! "If your toy isn't on the shelf, you're not safe, buddy!"

[Onslaught Six]

Ginrai's in the next series after Headmasters, right? I'd be willing to bet if that makes it to DVD that he'll be Optimus Prime since that's what the toy was named here. But who can say? The character isn't the same, so maybe they won't go that route.

I'd go ahead and hope that Shout would take the sensible route and Not do that. In fact, I will go so far as to say If Ginrai is named Optimus Prime in Shout's Masterforce DVDs, I will not be buying the DVDs.

When it comes to giving the characters their American names rather than Japanese, that makes sense. The DVDs are for the audience in this country, and the characters aren't known by their Japanese names here, even if the fan audience is aware of them. If I'm watching a character I've always known as "Optimus Prime" on the screen, I'd rather see him referred to by that name, even if the original show used the Japanese name Convoy. Would I be offended by the original names? No, but it wouldn't be my preference.

See, I'm half and half on it. I'm okay with it being Optimus Prime there, because Optimus Prime originated as an American Cartoon Character. Ginrai, though, is an 'entirely different guy.' He very explicitly is not Optimus Prime. That's his entire deal. It would be like if the Japanese randomly decided Optimus Primal was G1 Optimus Prime. (OH WAIT.) It would change everything.

Not just that, but there's also a selection of characters in Masterforce who, point blank, Are Not The American Guys. Minerva, for example, Is Not Nightbeat. She just isn't. The same way that, I dunno, Cryotek isn't BW Megatron, or Starscream isn't Thundercracker. Then you have guys like Lightfoot, who's Getaway in Japan.

I suspect Hasbro had something to say about that as well, since it's a cartoon featuring their product. They want the names to reflect the characters as they appeared in the North American market, since the DVD is being marketed here. Hence the smaller robot that forms the head of Fortess Maximus being named "Cerebros" since that's what the figure was named. Hasbro is matching the animated characters with the toy counterpart.

It makes sense to me, and as I said, it's my preferred approach.

That would make sense if Masterforce was being dubbed in 1988, but it's 2011. Anybody who has a passing interest in Masterforce probably already knows that these are different characters.

It makes far less difference for Headmasters, to me, because that's a direct sequel to the American series. Masterforce kind of goes off and does a completely different thing.

Out of interest: I know you aren't at that point yet, but what's Shout calling Twincast? I'm assuming Soundblaster will go through without much of a hitch, but Twincast's name doesn't make any sense unless you know Blaster is named Broadcast.

[andersonh1]

Not just that, but there's also a selection of characters in Masterforce who, point blank, Are Not The American Guys. Minerva, for example, Is Not Nightbeat. She just isn't. The same way that, I dunno, Cryotek isn't BW Megatron, or Starscream isn't Thundercracker. Then you have guys like Lightfoot, who's Getaway in Japan.

I get what you're saying. I don't know how the names are translated, being only two episodes into the series. I'll make a note of what the characters are named when I get that far.

That would make sense if Masterforce was being dubbed in 1988, but it's 2011. Anybody who has a passing interest in Masterforce probably already knows that these are different characters.

I don't know about that. A casual fan walking through Best Buy who knows nothing more about Transformers than the current movies and his childhood afternoon cartoon might see "Headmasters" next to season 3 and be interested in it just because it's something he's never seen before. I certainly would have been. And even though I'm passingly familiar with Headmasters, I've never tried to track it down or watch it before, so it is essentially a new series for me. My frame of reference is the G1 cartoon and characters, so I'm happy to see familar characters called by the names I've always known them by.

It makes far less difference for Headmasters, to me, because that's a direct sequel to the American series. Masterforce kind of goes off and does a completely different thing.

I guess sales of Headmasters might determine whether or not we get Masterforce. I haven't heard anything about it at this point.