Comics are awesome.

[Sparky Prime]

Is Steve Rogers already back? Or did he actually manage to somehow stay dead?

Steve didn't actually die. He was bascially "Quantum Leaping" around in the past before he managed to return to the present, around the start of the Heroic Age. By then, Bucky had taken up the role as Captain America. However, Steve decided to let Bucky keep the role of Cap. In the meantime, Steve replaced Norman Osborn as SHIELD director and has been operating with a black-ops "Secret Avengers" team. Recently Bucky was arrested by Russians for crimes he committed as Winter Soldier, leaving the role of Captain America empty.

But, yeah I'm sorry, I gotta side with Dom on this one, if Rogers comes back as Cap, it's pretty much just like it was. This is why I didn't get all flipped out when they announced that they were killing off the character. The attitude from marvel at the time was that he would stay dead and I think at least Dom and I both knew damn well that wasn't gonna stick for very long.

Again, just returning to the role of Cap doesn't mean everything is instantly "just like it was". There are still other story commitments they have to deal with.

As for Marvel having an attitude that Steve would be staying dead.... The interviews I saw only essentially said "Read the books", not having much of an attitude one way or another about it. In fact, Marvel doesn't make it much of a secret that they intend to kill off characters just for sales (even basically saying as much at the ComicsPro retailer summit), and as we've seen bring them back not long afterwords. But again, just because they kill a character and bring them back doesn't mean everything will be just like it was before all that happened.

[Shockwave]

Oh dear god really? Quantum leaping? And with each leap he was hoping the next one would be the leap... home. yikes. I think if Rogers did return to the role of Cap, it would be back to status quo on any sort of a meaningful level. Sure, there might be things the character has learned, but when is that ever gonna come up in story? "Hey Cap, remember the time the Skrulls invaded?" It would still get back to the core idea of the book which is Steve Rogers: Captain America, American super soldier. So it would essentially get back to the original concept. It's not always a bad thing, I just get tired of seeing it happen so often. Sometimes, like in the case of Transformers I actually prefer it to some degree. To me (like Gomess) the thing that drew me into the franchise was the concept of disguise. The idea that you could be driving down the street and see the same VW Beetle you've seen a hundred times before except that it might instead be a sentient robot and not actually a VW. So it's not necessarily bad and I'm not necessarily complaining except that I am kind of I guess maybe. Crap, it's 4am and I forgot what the heck my point was. Something about cycles.

Hey speaking of Cycles, did anyone here see Tron: Legacy? I thought it was pretty good. Bought that and the original since it had been forever since I'd seen it. Come to think of it, I should go post that in the hauls thread. Along with the awesome Sith Imperial bathrobe I just got.

Shockwave
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... end of line.

[Onslaught Six]

Oh come on guys. Is anyone surprised by this at all? Or outraged?

Hint, in case anyone's been living under a rock: There's a new Captain America movie coming out and they kind of maybe want to capitalize on that.

It's the same reason Spidey suddenly started wearing the black costume again when Spider-Man 3 came out.

[Dominic]

No, the return of the black costume was a logical part of the story as it unfolded....uh.....

I am neither suprised nor outraged. But, I still do not like it.


Dom

[Shockwave]

Apparently Dom is moderately disgruntled by this. I quit reading Marvel years ago so I don't really care.

[Sparky Prime]

I think if Rogers did return to the role of Cap, it would be back to status quo on any sort of a meaningful level.

It's not "if" he returns to Cap, it's when. But still, just returning to the role of Capt doesn't mean the status quo will be restored. He's still currently the director of SHIELD and a member of the Secret Avengers. Of course that could change in the next couple months as well (and I wouldn't be surprised if it does) but I'm just saying there is more involved with changing the status quo than Steve just being Cap again.

[138 Scourge]

A lot of it's the execution. Let's look at the Cap example: You could get, like, Jeph Loeb to write a story in which it turns out Bucky lived, but he's been a brainwashed Soviet assassin with a robot arm all this time. And then Bucky takes on the role of Cap after Cap's shot with time bullets that bounce him around history. And then Cap makes his triumphant return! Yeah, Loeb could write that, but it'd be the worst kind of gimmicky bullshit. Fortunately, they got Ed Brubaker to write it, and Brubaker is a hell of a writer. This is exactly what's gone down in Cap's book in the last five years, and it's been really enjoyable stuff. Also, it's been five damn years that Cap's been gone (I think), that's not Barry Allen-level gone, but that's not nothin'. Also, I'm pretty sure all this was planned out, since it's all been handled by the same writer and all.

This kind of thing doesn't annoy me at all. Maybe it used to, but nowadays, I figure the reset button actually helps the writers of these things. Since these characters are also big-money franchises, you can't do anything too permanent. So if the only changes that could happen had to stick, the creators would kind of be stuck keeping up a big status quo forever. However, since you can assume things'll get back to normal eventually, you can get stuff like...Frankenstein Punisher, for example. So what'll it be, a year of Frankenstein Punisher and he goes back to normal at the end, or no Frankenstein Punisher at all?

Here's a thought I had today: Between what's been happening in Cap and, more recently FF, it's kind of like the gimmicky nineties "stories" that used to happen, only being well done. So, you think creators that are about our ages have been influenced by that stuff, but are doing it better? Because if that's the case, it might mean that something good came out of the nineties after all. How weird would that be?

On a related note, I'm really tempted by the new Venom book, and I never thought I'd say that in a million years.

[Shockwave]

I just don't think the reset button should be button mashed like a retarded monkey playing Street Fighter. The frequency with which I here the complaining on here I can't help but think that Marvel and DC have just run out of ideas and that there's almost no point in reading comics anymore because all that awesome you just read is gonna be wiped out by whatever self indulgent writer comes next that decides they didn't like the previous writer's arcs. I dunno, again, I'll freely admit that I'm talking out my ass here, but it seems like most of the stuff I read a few years ago when I was reading Marvel has all more or less been undone.

Shockwave
-Not really buying the magic time bullet theory.

[138 Scourge]

Oh, it's no theory. That's what happened. Time bullets.

Well, if the recursive nature of superhero books bothers you, I'd recommend Marvel's Ultimate or All-Ages lines. The former has any crazy change they do stick, the latter just does really good stories without as much of a gimmicky "Everything Changes Forever" feel to things. But since you say you're pretty much out of the superhero stuff, I'd say it's probably best not to worry about 'em.

[Onslaught Six]

This kind of thing doesn't annoy me at all. Maybe it used to, but nowadays, I figure the reset button actually helps the writers of these things. Since these characters are also big-money franchises, you can't do anything too permanent. So if the only changes that could happen had to stick, the creators would kind of be stuck keeping up a big status quo forever. However, since you can assume things'll get back to normal eventually, you can get stuff like...Frankenstein Punisher, for example. So what'll it be, a year of Frankenstein Punisher and he goes back to normal at the end, or no Frankenstein Punisher at all?

I would rather we get Frankenstein Punisher and he stays the goddamn Frankenstein Punisher.

That's the thing--it didn't used to be like this. There was a time when Alan Scott was *the* Green Lantern. The only one! And then this Hal Jordan fuck came along and stole his whole thing, and then turned it around and made it about space aliens or some shit. Why does Hal Jordan's GL origin get to be the one that sticks? Why is Ryan Reynolds playing him instead of Alan Scott? Man they should just reboot that book back to the way it was.

You see how stupid that sounds?

If the choice is Frankenstein Punisher But Then He Changes Back And It Never Gets Brought Up Again, I will choose No Frankenstein Punisher At All. It's like Optimus Prime dying. When he got killed in ROTF I wasn't sad or shocked or anything. I was actually more surprised that they didn't kill him at the end to bring him back in TF3. But I knew he'd be back, because that's what always happens to Optimus Prime. Hell, Animated got it out of the way right quick by killing him in the pilot three-parter and bringing him back five seconds later. And nobody mentions it ever again! Prime should, by all means, spend the rest of the series seriously affected by the fact that he has seen death. Punisher should be haunted by troubled memories of his time as a Frankenstein. But of course, then he'd be a different kind of character altogether...effectively destroying the entire point of him going back to normal in the first place; which is to have a Big Reset Button. So there'd be no point in turning him back *anyway!*

I mean, if the model the Big Two are going to continue to use is "EVERYTHING HAS TO GO BACK TO NORMAL SOON ANYWAY BEFORE THE NEXT BIG MOVIE COMES OUT" then why bother having sweeping changes take place in the main books anyway? Do a spinoff book! Do a what-if! That's what I loved about those stories, they're explicitly *out* of continuity so that they don't *have* to go back to the status quo, ever. What if Superman: Red Son ended with Superman having to go back in time to make sure his own spaceship landed in Kansas again to fix the timeline? That would be really really painfully stupid.

That's one thing I always liked about the Back to the Future films: Marty changed the present at the end of the first film. And...he never changes it back. Oh, sure, in Part 2 he goes back and prevents Biff's crazy destroyed oppressive 1985, but when he arrives in the fixed 1985 again at the end, it's still the same "Really Happy!" present from the first film. He never changes that. He never goes back to make George McFly a loser again. The status quo is permanently changed, and if there were to be a Back to the Future 4 or something (Or there's even the game that's currently coming out, that can fill the role) it would have to keep that status quo intact.

On a related note, I'm really tempted by the new Venom book, and I never thought I'd say that in a million years.

Does Eddie Brock have the costume again? Did they Goddamn reset that, too? I mean, I was pissy that Scorpion was apparently the new Venom when I started skimming comics again around 2004, but when I really got into comics in 2008 he was *still* Venom as far as I knew. They were remarkably good with that! They did something and were sticking to it! So did they screw that up?