That is the thing though, I am judging it as being hackery. My arguement is that the genre does not excuse the laziness of the writers/animators/editors.
Yes, it was a bad cartoon that was intended to pander. In that sense, the mission of authorial intent was accomplished. But, that does not make the outcome anything to praise.
Dom
original movie script
Re: original movie script
Oh no, here we go again... 
At the very least one would need to consider intent and the effectiveness of what was conveyed. I also think the medium itself needs to be considered. I'm certainly not going to judge the story of a video game the same way I would a novel. The video games story would have to be structured to the style of gameplay, thus limiting (to at least some extent) the pacing of the story. Novels don't have that limitation and it would unfair to judge those the same way. The same holds true for tv vs. movies. The original cartoon was 1/2 hour long each. You're only gonna get so much story in that time, but you can do a larger story over a longer time with more episodes in a season. A movie on the other hand is limited to around 2-3 hours (at most). Usually a movie has to be told within that time unless it's a series of movies but even then it usually has to tell one story per movie (a la Spiderman). Obviously there are exceptions to this and I usually change my judging accordingly.
At the very least one would need to consider intent and the effectiveness of what was conveyed. I also think the medium itself needs to be considered. I'm certainly not going to judge the story of a video game the same way I would a novel. The video games story would have to be structured to the style of gameplay, thus limiting (to at least some extent) the pacing of the story. Novels don't have that limitation and it would unfair to judge those the same way. The same holds true for tv vs. movies. The original cartoon was 1/2 hour long each. You're only gonna get so much story in that time, but you can do a larger story over a longer time with more episodes in a season. A movie on the other hand is limited to around 2-3 hours (at most). Usually a movie has to be told within that time unless it's a series of movies but even then it usually has to tell one story per movie (a la Spiderman). Obviously there are exceptions to this and I usually change my judging accordingly.
Re: original movie script
Look at it this way, how well does TF *really* stack up against other 30 minute advertoons? Even by that standard, it does badly.
Dom
-hates to be the one to say it....
Dom
-hates to be the one to say it....
Re: original movie script
Hey I've said that many times myself and usually hold the He-Man cartoon up as the example of a better one. I was going back a few posts about that one rule for all thing.
Re: original movie script
Having multiple sets of rules for different genres or media needlessly complicates things and it gives a pass to certain genres while penalizing others.
There can be different systems for measuring different variables in something, (such as grading sound or editing separately from visual effects), but I am not going to give a pass for lazy writing or animation. Shoddy production is shoddy production.
But, along similar lines, Disney movies tend to be much better edited and animated that TF. But, their character designs are lazy.
Dom
-needs to review Jazz...and just fiddle with some new PCC figures.
There can be different systems for measuring different variables in something, (such as grading sound or editing separately from visual effects), but I am not going to give a pass for lazy writing or animation. Shoddy production is shoddy production.
But, along similar lines, Disney movies tend to be much better edited and animated that TF. But, their character designs are lazy.
Dom
-needs to review Jazz...and just fiddle with some new PCC figures.
Re: original movie script
I think everyone does that. "oh the story was good, but the sound was terrible". That's only logical. But, one wouldn't compare the story of the original Legend of Zelda to the story of War and Peace. It's not a fair comparison. Same with all video games. The point of a story in a video game is paced so as to set up the next level/area of play. Books aren't written that way. Likewise, I wouldn't try to compare the story in the original Star Wars trilogy to the story of the early TF cartoon. For one thing, the budgets are way different and the original Star Wars trilogy was meant to be one self contained story limited to those movies. The original TF cartoon was written to continue using and certain set of characters in many stories over time. Same with most TV shows which means you get an entirely different kind of writting. Altogether. Now, I can see using one standard to compare quality within a particularly medium, such as comparing the story of Super Mario Brothers on the original Nintendo vs. the story of God of War. Both are video games so it's a fair comparison. But even then you run into problems of age. SMB was good for it's time while GOW would have blown away most movies that were made then. Which also means that you then have to look at timing as well. Comparing GOW to SMB still wouldn't actually be a fair comparison because SMB was made 25+ years ago meaning that GOW had access to be made with far better technology and funding than SMB. I really think this point has almost been scientifically proven if you look at how things get translated from one medium to another. In fact, SMB is a perfect example. As a video game it's awesome. As a movie it sucks balls. Then, on top of that, you also have to start looking at why things get translated the way they do. Movie audiences aren't going to be as accepting of some things as video game audiences so things have to be changed/or cut in the process. Which changes the story. Which changes how the quality of that story is to be judged. Final Fantasy is another example. The movie had (as I understand it) nothing to do with the games and yet, taken unto itself it was a pretty good movie.
I dunno, I guess my ultimate point here is that the genres are so different that it's all complicated anyway. The best standard would be to simply say "is it good for this Genre?" and then judge accordingly.
I dunno, I guess my ultimate point here is that the genres are so different that it's all complicated anyway. The best standard would be to simply say "is it good for this Genre?" and then judge accordingly.
Re: original movie script
But, that gets back to my problem of setting the bar lower or higher for one genre or another, effectively giving a pass for lazy writing to some guys.
Granted, my way puts some genres at a disadvantage. But, writers in those cases simply need to work harder.
On the other hand, it also comes down to what I am "grading" for. Novels generally score a zero for art or sound. Video games generally score low on story, but high at applied tactics and such. (I am not going to argue that "Total Annihilation" is particularly well-written. But, it has amazing playability and music.)
Dom
Granted, my way puts some genres at a disadvantage. But, writers in those cases simply need to work harder.
On the other hand, it also comes down to what I am "grading" for. Novels generally score a zero for art or sound. Video games generally score low on story, but high at applied tactics and such. (I am not going to argue that "Total Annihilation" is particularly well-written. But, it has amazing playability and music.)
Dom
Re: original movie script
Not necessarily. This is why some writers should stick to certain genres. They are comfortable with a certain format but fall flat when taken out of that element. That is why you rarely see Comic book writers write movie scripts or TV writers write video games. When a writers cross genres, the writing style usually doesn't translate well. Then you wind up with "So and so is a good comic writer, but his movies..."