Movie influences on the rest of TFs

[Gomess]

Who the hell cares if "Transformers" is set on Earth?

Me. 99% of the people I've ever watched an episode of the old cartoon with. I can still remember the reaction of my big brother's friend when The God Gambit first aired. It was the first episode to be set on an alien planet, and it went straaiight over their head solely because of that. Heh.

It's not really *Transformers* to me if the transformation / diguises serve no relevant purpose. But as I've previously said, regarding State Games, good writing dealing with characters I particularly like can distract me from this little quirk. But I'll take the opening scene of Heavy Metal War over the entirety of Call of the Primitives anytime.

"Hey, I didn't send for more equipment!"

[Shockwave]

But I'll take the opening scene of Heavy Metal War over the entirety of Call of the Primitives anytime.

"Hey, I didn't send for more equipment!"

You and everyone else. Call of the Primitives sucked.

[Gomess]

Meh, most of my mates who grew up on Transformers loved CotP; the higher number of frames, the fight sequences with Tornatron, the fact that it SORT OF went into Unicron's backstory, and the.... ending. "Me Grimlock think that is smartest thing I ever done." Yessss. I laughed at the time.

But see, it's funny that I can't come up with a better example of a classic Transformers story not set on Earth. I guess I dotted my own "i" there. =p Oh hey, what about the grand finale of the G1 comic? People liked that, but again, I would take Heavy Metal War's opening over it any time.

[Dominic]

"Heavy Metal War" kind of sucked as well though. Would you seriously put that episode above "End of the Road", by Furman and Wildman (on the leash of Tokar in his prime)? What about...say..."The Core"? I am not saying every G1 episode, or every TF story set on Earth, (or any that has both of those qualities), is bad. But, there are plenty of examples of TF fiction that meet those standards that are fucking horrible. For every "Man of Iron" or "Master Builders", there is a "War Within". And, for every "Carnage in C-Minor" or "Call of the Primitives", there is a "B.O.T.".

So, Gomess, you much have hated "Beast Wars" huh? The disguise aspect kind of went out the window there. Beast modes were shown to be pretty poor disguises when the animals in question could see?smell right through them.

Good TF stories set largely off of/away from Earth: (in no particular order)
-"War Within" (Amazing art, and Furman is actually *writing*.)
-"Quintesson Journal"
-"Legacy of Unicron"
-"Last Stand of the Wreckers" (Easily one of the 5 most intelligently written TF stories in the 25+ years of the franchise.)
-IDW's Kup-focused stories.
-DW's "Micromasters". (Fans bitch and whine about it. But, McDonough was actually writing something, rather than just showcasing characters.)
-large chunks of "Generation 2".
-DW's volume 2 miniseries.



Dom
-figures that is a good sampling

[andersonh1]

-DW's "Micromasters". (Fans bitch and whine about it. But, McDonough was actually writing something, rather than just showcasing characters.)

To be fair, Micromasters is a strong story that deals with the seldom-explored Micromaster characters, but it's hobbled by poor art. And I think the art gets most of the flak. Had Figeroa or Guidi drawn the series, I think it would be held in higher regard by fandom.

[Gomess]

So, Gomess, you much have hated "Beast Wars" huh?

Yeah, it was never really my thing. I liked the toys, mostly. I found Beast Machines' plot much more interesting, tho'. As for your suggestions....

"War Within"
Couldn't disagree more! WW is a perfect example of everything I dislike in Transformers. Entirely insular, pandering to G1 fans, and the contrived pre-Earth forms... my goodness, the Predacons' altmodes actually made me LOL. Car with horns. Ahuh. Found the art totally unengaging, too, as I did with all DW's stuff.

"Quintesson Journal"
Heh, the Season 3 episode? Yeah, I like the Quintessons, so anything involving them is a win for me. There are exceptions, as I said.

"Legacy of Unicron"
Meh. Fun showcase for a few characters, particularly Smokescreen and Wreck-Gar. Unicron is another one of those instant turn-offs for me.

"Last Stand of the Wreckers"
Never read it.

IDW's Kup-focused stories
Read his Spotlight, and all I could think was "I wish he'd write about humans instead". It just didn't have anything to do with *Transformers* for me.

DW's "Micromasters"
I like the Micromasters, so it was a fun ride, but again, I just found the artwork and entire situation hard to connect with.

Large chunks of "Generation 2".
G2 is a laugh, but I'll never be able to take it seriously enough to call it A Good Story. Bandoliers? Spiked tires? Nazi Sideswipe? Onslaught's indigestion? THE SWARM?? I read G2 like I watch Mysery Science Theatre.

DW's volume 2 miniseries.
The thing with White Optimus Prime in? Nope, didn't get it at all. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was rife with errors, and... is that Scourge's debut too? Yeah, that one went right over my head. And sorry, but that ART. Man!

In all honesty, I guess just don't see Transformers as an all-purpose franchise in which stories can just be *told* in and of themselves. It's a gimmick-based franchise. So I like it much more when the gimmick is there, that's all. And, truth be told, I'm just not into sci-fi, and that's what TF stories are. But when there's *no* foothold in the real world, it just doesn't entertain me.

[Dominic]

Gonna be a two-parter.

To be fair, Micromasters is a strong story that deals with the seldom-explored Micromaster characters, but it's hobbled by poor art. And I think the art gets most of the flak. Had Figeroa or Guidi drawn the series, I think it would be held in higher regard by fandom.

The art, not without reason, is often complained about. But, I recall plenty of people who just did not "get" the whole point of the series, mob mentality.

Yeah, it was never really my thing. I liked the toys, mostly. I found Beast Machines' plot much more interesting, tho'. As for your suggestions....

Really, I actually thought you did like BW for some reason. (You certainly drew a few pics based on it.)

"Last Stand of the Wreckers"
Never read it.

You damned well need to read it. Nick Roche = John Byrne in terms of sheer talent. (And, I do not say that sort of thing lightely.)

DW's "Micromasters"
I like the Micromasters, so it was a fun ride, but again, I just found the artwork and entire situation hard to connect with.

You live in a country known for football hooliganism and you found Micromasters hard to connect with?

[Dominic]

Large chunks of "Generation 2".
G2 is a laugh, but I'll never be able to take it seriously enough to call it A Good Story. Bandoliers? Spiked tires? Nazi Sideswipe? Onslaught's indigestion? THE SWARM?? I read G2 like I watch Mysery Science Theatre.

Aside form the art being dodgy, (both for being inconsistent and generally bad in places), I loved G2. What was wrong with the swarm? It actually fit the high concept of the story, (evolution/degeneration), making it much easier to tolerate than Furman McGuffins that move stories with no concept beyond "OMFG TRANSFORMERS AM AWSUM!!!!1!!"

So I like it much more when the gimmick is there, that's all. And, truth be told, I'm just not into sci-fi, and that's what TF stories are. But when there's *no* foothold in the real world, it just doesn't entertain me.

What is the point of just limiting any franchise to a simple gimmick though? If nothing else, that hinders the writers, (often young guys starting out their careers), and results in the same redundant stories over and over and over and over and over again. (I am looking at "GI Joe" here.)

What genre do you prefer? I would argue that "Micromasters" is more "real"-ish in many ways than "robots disguised as retro-future-contemporary cars blundering around the planet.

[Gomess]

I drew BW fanart..? I helped a guy with a pic of Primal once, and *offered* to help design a certain ex-member's fan characters, but that's all. I certainly don't DISlike BW; it had a lot of memorable characters.

The only Genre with a capital g I'd say I like as a *rule* is fantastic realism. Now, I know Gabriel Garcia Marquez is never gonna write a TF comic, but I at least expect a BIT of kitchen sinkery in my fiction. I don't really say how it's restrictive to give a writer the brief: "Write a story about sentient robots fighting a civil war that have to disguise themselves as Earth machines in order to avoid detection and gather fuel, using these interesting basic character concepts, BUT DON'T GO TO SPACE OR USE MAGIC". And that's on the understanding that human armies are capable of tackling TFs, so they're motivated to stay concealed (which I find much more interesting; they should rust in water, too).

I also much prefer the weapons the TFs have in their tech specs to the generic lasers almost every other interpretation gives them. Acid pellets and torque rifles and friction-enhancers are waaaay cooler than pew-pew-pew. I know, lasers are cheaper to draw.

Basically, if a franchise strays too far from its central concept (as I believe TF has), it may as well be *anything*. A lot of TF stories set in space just remind me of Star Trek (I'm not a sci-fi buff, sue me). But if I *wanted* questions about whether we should interfere with alien races, or problems with the hyperdrive overwarp nuance thruster, or evil versions of the protagonists with goatees (Shattered Glass), I'd *watch* Star Trek.

Some of you may have noticed from my sig I'm a big fan of fiction based on the Three Kingdoms Period of China, and if I ever read a Three Kingdoms story which gradually ends up being about Guan Yu's long-lost brother searching for the magic necklace that will restore the fairy princess who keeps the werewolves sealed up in the jar of time......... I'll be disappointed. Y'know? Yes, I'm exaggerating for comic effect, but that's honestly how I see non-Earth TF stories. Like I said, I don't think it's restrictive to set a story on one planet. Plenty of authors manage it. =3

[Gomess]

What was wrong with the swarm?

Honestly? They didn't drag it out enough. I do quite like the idea of a biproduct of reproduction coming back to bite you, but it's fundamentally flawed for me because I don't buy Transformer reproduction. Yeah, even in that gloopy asexual way. They're robots, not silicon-based life forms. Until they start taking on more organic parts in convincing ways, like BW, they're robots. No, I never liked Furman's Lovecraftian TF origin story.... Primus is my enemy. =/ But if they'd shown more of the individual characters' reactions to the Swarm, and not just had them *shooting* the ineffable mockery of evolution descending upon them like so many angry fists of god, it would've held my interest.

I realise the fact that the idea of Transformer reproduction just makes me shake my head will make me unpopular with Synjo, but I'm just gonna risk it, darnit.

EDIT: Sorry for double posting.