We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[andersonh1]

The criteria I tried to use when judging who should be in any Hall of Fame had to do with longevity and recognizability. What characters and figures have been around since the beginning and have made enough of an impression to not only be remembered, but also in some cases to have multiple versions of the figure made throughout the various Transformer lines? No character created in the last few years is going to qualify, because there hasn't been enough time for them to really get established as a permanent fixture of the franchise.

Another consideration was which characters feature prominently in fiction? And again, longevity was a factor. It's very telling that the current Transformers comics from IDW feature characters from G1. We're not reading the continuing adventures of the AEC characters, even if they did have a comic when the toyline was actually at retail. We're reading about the 84-85 cast, along with the more well-known 86 characters.

[Onslaught Six]

Hot Shot has gotten several toys throughout his original toylines, was included in Universe, and then got thrown into Animated. (In fact, he was going to be Bumblebee, and would've been if the movie didn't have some say.)

Also, where did this bit about Wheeljack and Drift come from?

[andersonh1]

Hot Shot has gotten several toys throughout his original toylines, was included in Universe, and then got thrown into Animated. (In fact, he was going to be Bumblebee, and would've been if the movie didn't have some say.)

Hot Shot may be trending towards having long-term staying power, but then again he may not. He reminds me of Cheetor: very prominent in the franchise for a number of years and meant to be the out front, identifiable character. But Cheetor hasn't been seen since 2001, with the exception of the Universe remake. Time will tell if Hot Shot continues to appear or if he's done. From my point of view, he seems to be sputtering out, not remaining prominent.

Things could change. Look at Bumblebee... very prominent kid-I.D. character in G1, then he was simply gone and off the radar for years and years until the movie put him out front again. That led to him being in Animated, and now he's everywhere and hall of fame material, when just a few years ago he was one of many characters who had a turn in the spotlight and were then forgotten.

[Onslaught Six]

Cheetor was also one of the Armada BW repaints.

[138 Scourge]

Cheetor had the Titanium figure and the Robot Heroes figure, too. So he's been around some for the last few years.

I think the thing about Wheeljack and Drift came from a Hasbro panel at BotCon, but I'm not gonna swear to it. I'll try to find it later, when I'm on my proper computer.

[Shockwave]

I can see a case for Barricade if only to represent the movie franchise although I don't think the films really warrant hall of fame status.

To me, that's such a committee argument, "we have to have 1 of every franchise regardless of quality" thing that I can't get behind it, it adds too much value to the flavor of the month argument. There's no call to include RiD in here, yet 10 years ago perhaps there may have been, what does that say about those "then" votes?

I was just saying a case could be made. I am not making said case nor will I get behind it as I happen to agree with you.

[andersonh1]

Cheetor had the Titanium figure and the Robot Heroes figure, too. So he's been around some for the last few years.

Well, that's certainly true. I had forgotten about the Titanium figure, which is somewhat ironic.

[Dominic]

As for Acid and Sunny, well, I liked Sunstorm at first and then he got crammed down our throats and I got sick of him. Their both retcon. Acid Storm loses additional points with me because I feel like we got him instead of a mass release US Classics Thundercracker. I know, I know, "Go buy a Botcon or Henkei one". Bite me! I'm not going to!

How is either a retcon? They both show up clearly in the old cartoon, even if they are unnamed in the original cartoon. I am not defending Hasbro's decision not to release Thundercracker. But, we got Acid Storm independent of Thundercracker not coming out. As much as Thundergate stunk for all of us, Acid Storm had nothing to do with it.

To me, that's such a committee argument, "we have to have 1 of every franchise regardless of quality" thing that I can't get behind it, it adds too much value to the flavor of the month argument. There's no call to include RiD in here, yet 10 years ago perhaps there may have been, what does that say about those "then" votes?

As much as I liked RiD, I did not see any of those characters sticking, even then. I do see Barricade sticking.

the Japanese drift car character.

Wha? Drift is a US only character. Either way, using existing characters to fill the rolls taken by Sunstorm or Drift woudl have involved re-writing existing characters.

Drift is Poochie because he's a lot of "what we assume fans want to have as fanwank" without even doing anything, he's all show, no go.

So, is that bandwagon getting a little full there?

This argument only holds water under the assumption that Drift's faction-shifting origin is the keystone of what needed to be told.

Kinda was actually....

In all seriousness, I cannot shake the feeling that many of the problems with Drift, Acid Storm and Sunstorm are due to the fact that they came out after 1986 despite being placed into a G1 contest. "
Oh no, unfamiliar characters. Geewun cannevereverever change!"

I think you may be working so damned hard to justify Barricade simply because you want to back up your vote, not actually argue he's a decent nomination.

For a character to be legitimately *iconic*, they should have recognition beyond just the "insiders". Barricade has that.

So how would you tally votes differently to better counter zealotry?

I do not know of any way off the top of my head. Maybe a "if a character gets over X amount of votes in any slot under 3 they get an extra 50%"? I am sure there is a valid way to do it.

You know what else is published with official sanction? Transformers coloring books. Kiss Play. Shitty live-action movies directed by Michael Bay. The cover of Marvel Transformers #1 starring an old guy and some kid and a half-transformed car-bot flying after Laserbeak and a freaky super gigantic Optimus Prime wearing steel underpants even though a NORMAL Optimus Prime is in the upper left corner. Wheelie. Kicker. Rodimus gets Optimus shot by being a total moron and still gets to hang onto the Matrix. Nightscream. Animorphs.

All of those things are official. You are cherry picking what you think should be official. This is as bad as writing fanfic and calling it official.


Dom
-and the same applies to "Alternators" Grimlock.

[Onslaught Six]

For someone to be iconic, you need to be able to take them 'out' of Transformers fiction altogether and look at their outside appearances in other media. This is how everyone else knows them.

When Soundwave or Grimlock shows up in Family Guy or Robot Chicken, and someone who hasn't seen Transformers beyond the G1 cartoon twenty years ago goes, "Oh wow, it's Soundwave!" then that's the definition of iconic.

[Shockwave]

For someone to be iconic, you need to be able to take them 'out' of Transformers fiction altogether and look at their outside appearances in other media. This is how everyone else knows them.

When Soundwave or Grimlock shows up in Family Guy or Robot Chicken, and someone who hasn't seen Transformers beyond the G1 cartoon twenty years ago goes, "Oh wow, it's Soundwave!" then that's the definition of iconic.

Thank you! That's exactly what I was sayin' earlier!