Transformers - ongoing series

[Dominic]

The thing about "Continuum" is that we do not know what was a mistake and what was a retcon.

I will agree that Machination and Sky Watch are two different organizations. But, given the track record of humans as a species since "first contact", is it really such a good idea for Prime to just walk into their base and say "here I am"?


Upon further consideration, "brutalizing" does not seem like the right word. "Brutalizing" implies a discretionary, if not recreational, element to the activities. Even the Machination had utilitarian reasons for opening up Sunstreaker and taking him apart.

As stated above, the humans would have reason to use lethal force because keeping big alien robots in a prison would be expensive. Killing them and dissecting them would be cheaper, and possibly yield technological advances.

So, uh, yeah, Prime is a boob, unless he is assuming the humans are boobs who will not dissect him.

Dom
-and yeah, Prime plays favorites.

[Shockwave]

is it really such a good idea for Prime to just walk into their base and say "here I am"?

You're right, he should have said "Here I am, rock you like a hurricane!"

[andersonh1]

As stated above, the humans would have reason to use lethal force because keeping big alien robots in a prison would be expensive. Killing them and dissecting them would be cheaper, and possibly yield technological advances.

In the real world, it would be a whole lot cheaper to kill criminals than to imprison them, but cost isn't the bottom line and so we don't do that. Skywatch has plenty of reason to keep their prisoners alive. I don't think the people in charge of Skywatch have ever been shown to be as ruthless as the Machination were. I'd be willing to bet they aren't going to start executing sentient alien beings just because it may be cheaper to kill them than imprison them. If the fact that Transformers are sentient isn't the deciding factor, then the technological and intelligence value of the prisoners would be. Particularly with someone as high-ranking and knowledgeable as Optimus Prime.

[Sparky Prime]

As stated above, the humans would have reason to use lethal force because keeping big alien robots in a prison would be expensive. Killing them and dissecting them would be cheaper, and possibly yield technological advances.

Wow Dom... just wow. Like andersonh1 said, cost isn't the bottom line here and there are a ton of reasons why they might want to keep their prisoners alive. Besides, with the inhibitor's on them, they were essentially just "vehicles with surprisingly good handling" according to Spike. Makes it much easier and cheaper to contain them that way with out needlessly killing them. Plus, there are things they could learn from living Transformers that they could never figure out with a dead one. Heck, the creation of the inhibitors wouldn't have been possible with out a living Transformer for them to study their higher functions given those functions would be nonexistent if they were dead.

But, given the track record of humans as a species since "first contact", is it really such a good idea for Prime to just walk into their base and say "here I am"?

Again, the Autobots have been watching Skywatch for 3 years now, and as such, they should know their usual tactics quite well by now. If the humans were normally so quick to jump to lethal force, then I'm sure Prime wouldn't have charged in like that. But no, he knew what he was doing.

[Dominic]

Having a few living prisoners would make sense. But, the political considerations for human prisoners would likely be different than for aliens.

And, Skywatch is run by a guy who pretty much told Prime, "no, we cannot be friends". So, even if Skywatch is not killing TFs, it is still really foolish of Prime to surrender to them.

Dom
-still amazed how capricious Prime is about who he saves.

[Sparky Prime]

But, the political considerations for human prisoners would likely be different than for aliens.

Says who? Just because they happen to be from another planet means they have different rights? No, I should think the Geneva Conventions should still apply as it sets the standards of international law when it comes to the treatment of victims of war.

And, Skywatch is run by a guy who pretty much told Prime, "no, we cannot be friends". So, even if Skywatch is not killing TFs, it is still really foolish of Prime to surrender to them.

And again, that was 3 years ago. Skywatch has improved their weapons and tactics to defend themselves from Transformers considerably since then. Now they're more on even ground to open a dialog. Again, clearly Prime is taking a risk, but it'll be worth it if he can establish a peace between them.

[Onslaught Six]

But, the political considerations for human prisoners would likely be different than for aliens.

Says who? Just because they happen to be from another planet means they have different rights? No, I should think the Geneva Conventions should still apply as it sets the standards of international law when it comes to the treatment of victims of war.

International, not interplanetary--or even 'that.' The thing is, I don't even think the humans even really know that much about the TFs. I'm not even sure if they know there's two sides. They might not even know they're from another planet. Or more importantly, it's not ever said that this is a declared war between the United States and the Transformers--then protocol would have to be finished and stuff. This is more along the lines of a police force at work.

[Dominic]

Some would say, (and I tend to agree), that the Geneva Conventions only apply to signatories. And, given the nature of big robots from another planet, it might make sense to "dispose of' them.

You are probably right though, Skywatch most likely is not killing the TFs they capture.


I am still wondering why Prime did not bother to okay a rescure for Windcharger and Gears. (If not for the fact that the TFU line ended months ago, I would swear that Prowl only warranted a rescue because of the recent action figure.)


Skywatch would have some information about TFs based on AHM. (For example, they know that there are two factions.) But, would they care?


Dom
-really, why no rescue for Windcharger and Gears?

[Onslaught Six]

-really, why no rescue for Windcharger and Gears?

Acceptable losses. Prime is still so set in his old ways.

[Sparky Prime]

International, not interplanetary--or even 'that.' The thing is, I don't even think the humans even really know that much about the TFs. I'm not even sure if they know there's two sides. They might not even know they're from another planet. Or more importantly, it's not ever said that this is a declared war between the United States and the Transformers--then protocol would have to be finished and stuff. This is more along the lines of a police force at work.

International Laws are laws that govern concerns over structure and conduct of sovereign states or analogous entities. Given the Autobots and Decepticons are each sovereign states (albeit it from another planet), that definition could actually apply here. And I don't see that it matters how much the general human population know about the Transformers. Skywatch, as the organization put in charge of the situation, certainly knows what they need to know about them. And it's clear the Decepticons were trying to conquer the planet, to which the entire planet fought back against, and continue to do so. A clear state of war if there ever was one.

Some would say, (and I tend to agree), that the Geneva Conventions only apply to signatories. And, given the nature of big robots from another planet, it might make sense to "dispose of' them.

The States Party to the Geneva Convention is 194, making it universally applicable. And it's at the very core of international humanitarian laws. It applies.

-really, why no rescue for Windcharger and Gears?

It's probably simply that they're being held at a different facility the Autobots are unaware of. After all, we know the one Prowl was being held at turned out to be a trap.