Comics are awesome.

[Onslaught Six]

I hardly think DC's stance is "comics have no meaning". If it were, I doubt they'd still be publishing comics, because they don't have meaning, right? No, they care about these stories.

I haven't been reading, but I distinctly recall a panel or two being posted on /co/ where characters were saying, literally, "People who have been dead for years are coming back! It's like nothing even matters anymore!"

Here's the question: If DC didn't absolutely have to have a stupid massive event book every year now, would Blackest Night be happening?

I also hope this entire thing simply ends with Death showing up and being all, "Yeah, no, this is idiotic."

[Dominic]

Morrison said much the same, both in "Final Crisis" and various interviews.


Johns, whose primary skill seems to be that he writes at a level most of us outgrew in middle school, had Black Hand complsining about how temporary death seems to be. If that is not a strawman complaint about modern DC, then what is it.

I wonder how long the emotional spectrum idea, (a good example of the bad ideas Johns makes "awesome"), will stick. How will they restore the purple battery? Either way, bringing back characters and calling it depth only works with an extremely charactercentric reading.

Dom
-doubts "Blackest Night" could stand without the need for an event.

[Sparky Prime]

I haven't been reading, but I distinctly recall a panel or two being posted on /co/ where characters were saying, literally, "People who have been dead for years are coming back! It's like nothing even matters anymore!"

Your kinda vague on the details here... With out more context, it's hard to say what that's even referring to.

Here's the question: If DC didn't absolutely have to have a stupid massive event book every year now, would Blackest Night be happening?

I can easily see Blackest Night scaled back to just cover Green Lantern. But given the whole dead rising thing effects everybody, it makes sense Blackest Night would be a big cross-over story in order to fully grasp the scale of the concept.

Morrison said much the same, both in "Final Crisis" and various interviews.

Right, like he speaks for all of DC comics.

Johns, whose primary skill seems to be that he writes at a level most of us outgrew in middle school, had Black Hand complsining about how temporary death seems to be. If that is not a strawman complaint about modern DC, then what is it.

In a story about the dead rising, you don't think that Death might be a little pissed off that some people have 'escaped' from death and live again? And that Death would want those souls back? Because that's what Black Hand is actually talking about there. You're looking for a hidden meaning here when there is none.

I wonder how long the emotional spectrum idea, (a good example of the bad ideas Johns makes "awesome"), will stick. How will they restore the purple battery? Either way, bringing back characters and calling it depth only works with an extremely charactercentric reading.

Again, as far as I've seen fans love the Emotional Spectrum concept (some I've seen even asking if we might see spin off books of the other Corps as a result) and Johns has commented the War of Light will still be going on after Blackest Night. It doesn't sound like it'll be going anywhere for a while. The Green Lantern Central Battery has been destroyed before. A couple times actually. The most recent restoration, Kyle Rayner used his Ion powers to restore its power. I don't see why the Zamarons couldn't use the Predator Entity to restore power to theirs. The Guardians have also been able to restore the GL Battery, so what ever their method for it is should also work for the Star Sapphires. And as I see it, this is a very charactercentric story. We're literally dealing with how various characters feel and react here.

[Dominic]

Right, like he speaks for all of DC comics.

Uh, they gave Morrison "Final Crisis". And, "Crisis" stories are the ones that tend to define DC.

There is also the fact that Didio has greenlit everything. The fact that "Countdown" seemed to be all about lowering expectations about any comics meaning everything, (hence the fact much of "Countdown" did not stick even unto itself). Having read all of "Countdown", and many of its cross-overs, i am really thinking that disaster of a comic was intentional, and indicative of DC's over-all direction.

The Green Lantern Central Battery has been destroyed before. A couple times actually.

And, this kind of proves my point about nothing sticking.

When I told a few of my friends about the spectrum idea, a few of them actually laughed. They thought I was kidding.

In a story about the dead rising, you don't think that Death might be a little pissed off that some people have 'escaped' from death and live again? And that Death would want those souls back? Because that's what Black Hand is actually talking about there. You're looking for a hidden meaning here when there is none.

DC is known for using strawmen bad guys. Black Hand is entirely consistent with that tradition.


Dom
-gives this story 3 years, at most.

[Sparky Prime]

Uh, they gave Morrison "Final Crisis". And, "Crisis" stories are the ones that tend to define DC.

Final Crisis really is not like CoIE or IC. While FC has made changes to DC, it's not what I'd call the reality shaping story that defines the DC universe like the other Crisis stories.

There is also the fact that Didio has greenlit everything. The fact that "Countdown" seemed to be all about lowering expectations about any comics meaning everything, (hence the fact much of "Countdown" did not stick even unto itself). Having read all of "Countdown", and many of its cross-overs, i am really thinking that disaster of a comic was intentional, and indicative of DC's over-all direction.

Countdown and 52 were somewhat unique stories given they were being released weekly. I can excuse that those wouldn't be the strongest stories given the fast pace they had to go with. And Didio I'm sure greenlit stories he felt readers would find interesting, which the reactions I've seen for the most part support.

And, this kind of proves my point about nothing sticking.

It's a power battery that the Guardians themselves built. You don't think they'd be able to fix it? Or someone with the power of the Emotional Entities themselves? Fixing a power battery is a relatively minor thing here and nothing new or unique to Blackest Night.

DC is known for using strawmen bad guys. Black Hand is entirely consistent with that tradition.

And again, you're trying to see something that isn't there. Black Hand isn't even the main villain here, he's just working for Nekron who is a representation of Death itself in the DC universe.

[Shockwave]

Ugh. All of this is at least partially why I'm not sorry I dropped the Marvel books. I'm really sick of the "epic event level multiverse changing reboot story" approach to comics. I'm really not even in favor of the 6 issue story arc approach. I really wish that comics would just get back to be episodic instead of all this epic level crap. This is why I like Buffy season 8. It's episodic. Sure there's a "larger" story for the season, but it's not overshadowing the individual "episodes". And it's actually good.

[Dominic]

Final Crisis really is not like CoIE or IC. While FC has made changes to DC, it's not what I'd call the reality shaping story that defines the DC universe like the other Crisis stories.

FC brought back the "New Gods" from their "this does not matter" destruction in 'Death of the New Gods". It established that pretty much everyone knows about the returned multi-verse. (Arguably, it also established that there are more than 52 universes, as evidenced by the 60+ Supermen in issue 7.) Barry Allen came back.

I will grant you that it was a different type of story from "Crisis on infinite Earths", "Crisis in Time" (the alternate title for "Zero Hour"), and 'Infinite Crisis". But, it still pretty well sums up DC's current direction.

Countdown and 52 were somewhat unique stories given they were being released weekly. I can excuse that those wouldn't be the strongest stories given the fast pace they had to go with. And Didio I'm sure greenlit stories he felt readers would find interesting, which the reactions I've seen for the most part support.

52 was amazing, despite low expectations. It raised expectations to new heights, right before "Countdown" brought then crashing back down. i re-read "Countdown" and am almost positive that it, and the cross-overs, were deliberately bad. (Think of it as performance art about bad comics.) It got worse in increments, and there are enough thematic similarities between the comics to make me suspect that the 'stovepiping" some writers complained about was something of a fib.

if nothing else, given the brain trust working on both "52' and 'Countdown", there is no reason for either to be less than readable.

The most naked example of "so stupid it cannot be an accident" is the fact that Universe-51 died twice, and both deaths were contradicted in "Final Crisis". "Final Crisis" ignored a number of points from 'Countdown" actually. Morrison not only seemed to not care, but seemed to be doing this on purpose.

It's a power battery that the Guardians themselves built. You don't think they'd be able to fix it? Or someone with the power of the Emotional Entities themselves? Fixing a power battery is a relatively minor thing here and nothing new or unique to Blackest Night.

Given the import attached to the main battery in "Green Lantern", and the "oh no" reactions when it gets destroyed, the fact said batteries can be repaired so easily kind of illustrates the 'nothing every sticks" point.

Ugh. All of this is at least partially why I'm not sorry I dropped the Marvel books. I'm really sick of the "epic event level multiverse changing reboot story" approach to comics. I'm really not even in favor of the 6 issue story arc approach. I really wish that comics would just get back to be episodic instead of all this epic level crap. This is why I like Buffy season 8. It's episodic. Sure there's a "larger" story for the season, but it's not overshadowing the individual "episodes". And it's actually good.

i lost interest in "Buffy" with season 4. From there, i watched a few episodes, and gave up completely when it started to turn into 'bad guys reform' hour. (Nobody thought to kill Angel, Anna, Spike, Faith, or even Buffy "I like 'em hostile and without a pulse" The Vampire Slayer?)


I do not mind rare events. I do not mind changes. But, the events and changes need to be worthwhile and have some staying power. Bringing characters back because a writer regrets killing them off, (Waid and the Rogues Gallery come to mind here), or because a "star" writer wants to use a dead character in current context, (Kevin Smith and Green Arrow), is just cheap. Similarly, bending to the complaints of fans, ("noooooooooooo, not Bart Allen!!!!111!!!1!!!" or "OMFG, the killed Blink, the bestest character ever!"), does not give comics much staying power either.


Dom
-tends to avoid DC now.

[Sparky Prime]

FC brought back the "New Gods" from their "this does not matter" destruction in 'Death of the New Gods". It established that pretty much everyone knows about the returned multi-verse. (Arguably, it also established that there are more than 52 universes, as evidenced by the 60+ Supermen in issue 7.) Barry Allen came back.

I will grant you that it was a different type of story from "Crisis on infinite Earths", "Crisis in Time" (the alternate title for "Zero Hour"), and 'Infinite Crisis". But, it still pretty well sums up DC's current direction.

This is exactly my point. I acknowledged FC changed some things, but again, it is not the reality shaping type of "Crisis" story that defines the DC universe. I really don't see that it actually speaks for the current direction of DC either.

if nothing else, given the brain trust working on both "52' and 'Countdown", there is no reason for either to be less than readable.

Again, they were dealing with a lot of things and had to do it rather quickly to meet the weekly deadlines. I find it completely understandable that they would have some problems keeping up the standards in that situation. I'm really surprised they ever attempted a weekly series, let alone more that one.

Given the import attached to the main battery in "Green Lantern", and the "oh no" reactions when it gets destroyed, the fact said batteries can be repaired so easily kind of illustrates the 'nothing every sticks" point.

Don't get me wrong here, loosing the Central Power Battery can be a big deal. With out it, the Corps cannot recharge their rings (through their usual means at any rate, we have since seen some alternative methods of recharging certain rings) and who knows how long it'll take to repair, especially in a crisis situation. Such as when Parallax destroyed the GL Central Battery. Most of the Guardians were killed, and no one knew of/had the Ion powers (until Kyle Rayner got it years later), leaving no way to re-power it. But again, the destruction of a Central Battery is hardly something to use to illustrate a 'not everything sticks' point. If it can be built, it can be rebuilt just as easily, as long as there is someone that knows how and has the capability to do so.

[BWprowl]

Similarly, bending to the complaints of fans, ("noooooooooooo, not Bart Allen!!!!111!!!1!!!" or "OMFG, the killed Blink, the bestest character ever!"), does not give comics much staying power either.

For what it's worth, I was delighted that they brought Bart back. Of course, I would've been happier had they not been asses and killed him in the first place. I think, if anything, his story should've ended with his de-powering at the end of Infinite Crisis. It made me sad, yeah, but it was a really good place for the character's arc to end.

Agrees with Dom that 52 was pretty impressive. That series made me like Booster Gold and Renee Montoya as much as I do now.

[Shockwave]

(Nobody thought to kill Angel, Anna, Spike, Faith, or even Buffy "I like 'em hostile and without a pulse" The Vampire Slayer?)

Yes, several actually including the Watcher's Council at one point. They just failed epically.