All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Shockwave]

Ok, this comment should probably go in one of the movie threads, but the topic came up here so here goes. It's tough to beleive that "Fredom is the right of all sentient beings" when you spend all your time going around taking their faces.

Even with Hunter they still only had Sunstreaker's codes.

[Onslaught Six]

Even with Hunter they still only had Sunstreaker's codes.

I hate to quote a Wiki summary instead of the book wholesale, but I'm on campus and thus, don't have it with me, so this will have to do:

When they captured Hunter, Megatron saw potential in an "organic-Cybertronian hybrid" that Scorponok had never seen. Bombshell agrees, remarking on how they were able to use the human/Autobot combination to create a hub for both tracking the Autobots down and deactivating their defenses, "if only once."

In other words, through Hunter the Decepticons were somehow able to get into the Autobot defense systems beyond what Sunstreaker alone would give them. And as I said before, the dialogue implies that this broken code was only once--meaning any other time the Decepticons have overcome the Autobots, they've either done so by sheer force, or the allegedly massive amount of destroyed Autobot outposts is just that--'allegedly,' and possibly planted evidence by the Decepticons.

Also, to go back to the Megs characterisation thing again--It's clear from many interviews and from AHM wholesale that McCarthy (and IDW in general) were/are going for more of a retro-G1 feel with this series and the G1 books in general, while when IDW started, Furman was clearly trying to go in a different direction--the multiple Arks, Super Energon plotline, holodrivers, new characters in Hunter and his ilk, Galvatron is a different guy--and perhaps most importantly, Megs being willing to off Starscream for trechery. This is 'not' usually how the Megs/Starscream relationship is portrayed, and McCarthy, being more of a G1 purist, wrote them more along the lines of what he saw.

Similarly, we've got disconnect between AHM proper and the Starscream story in Coda--because a different writer is writing it!

[Dominic]

Ok, this comment should probably go in one of the movie threads, but the topic came up here so here goes. It's tough to beleive that "Fredom is the right of all sentient beings" when you spend all your time going around taking their faces.

Freedom is their right. And, Prime has a right to their faces. It is freedom and anarchy for all.

Even with Hunter they still only had Sunstreaker's codes.

Unless there are other traitors, as implied by Drift's comment. Even if, (and I am not saying it is wrong), the wiki quote rules out other traitors, it might be interesting to see the paranoia (seen with Ironhide and Mirage), on a larger scale. (Not that I expect this, or anything really worthwhile from it.)

And, as stated above, getting one code could allow one to get others in succession. (This is why it is not a good idea to save one's codes in an email account.)

Similarly, we've got disconnect between AHM proper and the Starscream story in Coda--because a different writer is writing it!

In this case, the second writer should be obligated to follow the guy before him, as the two stories are supposed to mesh.

I never saw the contradiction. Starscream tells off Prime in AHm because he kind of has to. (Why would he publicly say, "Hey, yeah, that is a good idea Prime! Thanks!"?) Then, when he is alone, Starscream has two possible motivations. Case 1)-morally sound: Keeping Megatron alive and/or focusing on a comatose leader is just a bad idea. It would be more efficient if the Decepticons (for whatever reason) transferred their loyalties to a guy whose frontal lobes were intact. Case 2)-selfish: Starscream just wants Megatron dead and out of the way. (Actually, these are not wholly exclusive to each-other.)


Dom
-updates his codes frequently.

[Shockwave]

Getting other codes from one is theoretically possible, but it's a reeeeeeeeaaaallly big stretch. That would be like still looking for a needle in a haystack and expecting to have an advantage because you know the size and shape of the needle you're looking for. My point was that, even with Hunter acting as some sort of "hub" he transforms in to Sunstreaker's head and therefore still only has Sunstreaker's access codes. Plugging him into a network isn't going to broaden that access. The advantage there isn't additional codes, it's being able to track the enemy without them knowing which is a different advantage entirely.

[BWprowl]

Getting other codes from one is theoretically possible, but it's a reeeeeeeeaaaallly big stretch. That would be like still looking for a needle in a haystack and expecting to have an advantage because you know the size and shape of the needle you're looking for. My point was that, even with Hunter acting as some sort of "hub" he transforms in to Sunstreaker's head and therefore still only has Sunstreaker's access codes. Plugging him into a network isn't going to broaden that access. The advantage there isn't additional codes, it's being able to track the enemy without them knowing which is a different advantage entirely.

This brings up an interesting point: Why the hell are there no computer hacker Transformers? Seriously, they do friggin' everything on computers; they *are* computers basically, and yet, in the entire 25+ years of the franchise, the only character we've ever gotten whose function was anything like 'Computer Hacker' was Rattrap in Beast Machines. Otherwise, they always have to torture access codes out of people and the like if they wanna get into various classified systems and whatnot. If Megatron had had a decent hacker among his team in AHM, then getting into the Autobots' security and computer systems, sabotaging their operations, and racking up the interstellar victory count would've been no problem.

I hate it when I stumble upon these things that wind up bugging the hell out of me. Like why does no one smoke in Baccano? It takes place in the 1930's! Everybody smoked!

[andersonh1]

Continuing my hopping around in the AHM storyline, I picked up issue #13 today. And once again, I found it a very enjoyable set of stories, based around two of my favorite G1 characters.

Ironhide - This particular story reminds us that Ironhide's been around a long time, and seen some ugly things. And at the beginning of the story it's finally gotten to be too much, thanks to his beatdown of Mirage. He and Optimus Prime sit down, have a drink or three and discuss their friendship from where it started to where it is now. That's a nice angle for the writer to take, because Optimus Prime doesn't have that many friends. He's in charge, and by necessity has to be somewhat distant from those under his command. Ironhide's one of the exceptions, and it's good to see that demonstrated, both via the conversation between the two and via flashback.

I've been a fan of Don Figeroa's art for several years now, and despite a poor first impression of his new style a few months ago when I first saw the art preview from the ongoing series, I find here that I like the new art quite a bit more than I thought I would. Don's art has always been detailed and expressive, and that trend continues here. The Transformers' eyes resemble the movie designs, but a lot of the new art is just altered facial styles and added layers of detail. It works for me.

Starscream - I've always had a disagreement with Starscream's portrayal as an incompetent coward. It doesn't match his original bio, and it doesn't make sense that he'd rise to be Megatron's lieutenant if he wasn't capable of doing the job. I think the "whiny coward" is a relic of the old cartoon, and one that needs to be disposed of. This issue does a good job of portraying Starscream as ambitious and egotistical, but not so much that it overwhelms his good sense. He knows that even with Megatron out of the way that his position isn't assured. Razorclaw is sure to challenge him, and there's always the possibility that Megatron will recover as well. When Shrapnel offers to finish him off, Starscream is unwilling to do that because he knows those loyal to Megatron will take revenge.

And then there's the Matrix, something Decepticons apparently can't use, and which Starscream sees no value in having, since it sits there and looks pretty and nothing else. But he's quick to figure out that the reputation may be enough to solidify his hold on the leadership based on Shrapnel's reaction. In the end, his body language suggests that he knows he's stepped in it, and that his lie is bound to come back and haunt him. I'd like to see some follow-up to this. I'd enjoy reading a plot where Starscream finally got what he always wanted and found that he hated it.

I didn't care for this artistic style as much. It got the job done and illustrated the story, but it's just not to my liking.

Overall, the second best issue of the "coda" issues.

[Sparky Prime]

By "basis to guess" I meant, and should have said, having a few actual codes would give the Decepticons an idea of the format the Autobots used.

Not necessarily. Just because one code is in a certain format doesn't mean they all follow that format. Even assuming they were all in the same format, that still doesn't mean you could accurately guess all of their codes.

In other words, through Hunter the Decepticons were somehow able to get into the Autobot defense systems beyond what Sunstreaker alone would give them.

I don't see how even "hacking" Hunter would give them the ability to deactivate all of the Autobot defenses. Hunter shouldn't know or have access to anything more than Sunstreaker himself, because as Sunstreaker's former Headmaster, Sunstreaker was all he had a connection to, not the entire Autobot network. There is no way they should have been able to use Hunter to that capacity, one time only or not.

If you really need an in-context explanation though, I guess we could just assume Megatron lost his temper.

That wouldn't explain Megatron's nonchalant attitude as to whether or not Starscream survived his injuries after the fact. Or his anger that his other troops eventually let him out against orders (which he only overlooked because he needed Starscream's support with the Reaper's attack). And again, how he dealt with Ramjet. Killing (or nearly killing) troops who step out of line is just how this Megatron deals with it.

[Onslaught Six]

I don't see how even "hacking" Hunter would give them the ability to deactivate all of the Autobot defenses. Hunter shouldn't know or have access to anything more than Sunstreaker himself, because as Sunstreaker's former Headmaster, Sunstreaker was all he had a connection to, not the entire Autobot network. There is no way they should have been able to use Hunter to that capacity, one time only or not.

The implication I've got is that, because Hunter is an organic, they can use him to link into the Autobot system and bypass security measures that other Transformers wouldn't be able to. In other words, the Autobots only check for other Transformers in their systems--they never check for humans because they've never had this kind of situation before. Bombshell implies human minds work differently than Transformer ones, and that's why he could get through.

That wouldn't explain Megatron's nonchalant attitude as to whether or not Starscream survived his injuries after the fact. Or his anger that his other troops eventually let him out against orders (which he only overlooked because he needed Starscream's support with the Reaper's attack). And again, how he dealt with Ramjet. Killing (or nearly killing) troops who step out of line is just how this Megatron deals with it.

Is that 'not' consistant with Megs' traditonal kill-everyone-who-disagrees-with-me mentality that we've been pointing out is a core element of Megs's plan in AHM? Starscream is traditionally the exception because he's a capable leader in and of himself--that's shown early on in AHM, if I'm not mistaken.

This brings up an interesting point: Why the hell are there no computer hacker Transformers? Seriously, they do friggin' everything on computers; they *are* computers basically, and yet, in the entire 25+ years of the franchise, the only character we've ever gotten whose function was anything like 'Computer Hacker' was Rattrap in Beast Machines. Otherwise, they always have to torture access codes out of people and the like if they wanna get into various classified systems and whatnot. If Megatron had had a decent hacker among his team in AHM, then getting into the Autobots' security and computer systems, sabotaging their operations, and racking up the interstellar victory count would've been no problem.

Arguably, wasn't the Trion hacked, and that's why they crashed?

[BWprowl]

Arguably, wasn't the Trion hacked, and that's why they crashed?

Technically, you could say it was, but I was under the impression the Decepticons did that using the codes they already had.

[Sparky Prime]

The implication I've got is that, because Hunter is an organic, they can use him to link into the Autobot system and bypass security measures that other Transformers wouldn't be able to. In other words, the Autobots only check for other Transformers in their systems--they never check for humans because they've never had this kind of situation before. Bombshell implies human minds work differently than Transformer ones, and that's why he could get through.

I don't see that implication at all. Even if the Decepticons could rig it to connect Hunter's mind to the Autobot Network, I don't see how that could possibly explain how he could crack all of their codes. Having an organic mind that 'works differently' shouldn't make a difference.

Is that 'not' consistant with Megs' traditonal kill-everyone-who-disagrees-with-me mentality that we've been pointing out is a core element of Megs's plan in AHM?

Dom is the one saying Megatron wouldn't kill his own troops, not me. I've been pointing out for a while now that Megatron would kill his troops if he felt it was necessary.

Arguably, wasn't the Trion hacked, and that's why they crashed?

Technically, you could say it was, but I was under the impression the Decepticons did that using the codes they already had.

I'd have to agree with BWProwl here. While the Autobots on-board may have thought their systems were being hacked at the time, the impression given is that the Decepticons actually used the codes they had to shut them down.