All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Onslaught Six]

Are you sure Rumble was killed? Because he seemed to be perfectly fine by the next issue, siding with Starscream's coup.

Admittedly, I hadn't noticed--and this well could be a colouring issue, as Frenzy isn't there.

I don't agree. People can surprise you (and maybe even themselves) by doing what you don't expect them to do, or what you'd think they are even capable of in extraordinary situations. This is no way to measure their "true nature".

That is exactly Sparky's point--what someone does in that extraordinary situation *is* their true nature. Mirage, for example, is put in an extraordinary situation--a teammate suspects him of being a traitor and assaults him, and then later, he 'saves' that very teammate from an enemy, which shows that Mirage's true colours far better than if the assault had never happened. We learn from that situation that either Mirage is very forgiving to save the life of Ironhide, or he's loyal enough to the Autobots to save one of their own even if Ironhide was a douchebag to him before.

Likewise, with Prowl, for example. (I'll let someone else handle this one, if they really want.)

Way to deflect the topic with something completely irrelevant to what we're talking about...

The point remains, Megatron didn't need all of those Decepticons on Earth.

I don't see how what he said is irrelevant. Megatron is a character--what he does doesn't always have to make *sense.* He's allowed to be crazy and occasionally stupid. He's allowed to be overkill and continue conquering the planet, even if he's got an army large enough to conquer it five times over. If that's what Megs wants to do, he's allowed--he's Megatron!

Plus, even though it's technically invoking Godwin's Law, it isn't illogical to compare Megatron to Hitler in some respects.

No, you're missing what I'm saying and not really seeing all of what Megatron spells out in no uncertain terms. Megatron says he wants to weed out what exactly? "No infighting, no dissent". So how does he go about this? By infighting and dissent. So how exactly does this plan to weed out the unwanted elements in the Decepticons supposed to work exactly? Sure, only the strongest would survive, but he's basing the process on exactly on what he wants to do away with, which makes absolutely no sense and Megs is smart enough he should realize this plan isn't going to get him very far.

Perhaps Megatron has other things on his mind, and is ignoring the flaws in his plan. Especially since none of the Decepticons would dare object to it.

"This is my plan, Starscream!"
"That plan makes no sense, you're an idiot."
"I have a cannon three times the size of your head on my arm."
"All Hail Megatron!"

[Sparky Prime]

Admittedly, I hadn't noticed--and this well could be a colouring issue, as Frenzy isn't there.

If it is a coloring mistake, then they did it a lot because Rumble shows up in issues after that as well.

That is exactly Sparky's point--what someone does in that extraordinary situation *is* their true nature.

That would be the opposite of Sparky's point actually, as I'm saying what someone does in an extraordinary situation isn't necessarily a true showing of their "true nature". As I talked about with Ironhide earlier.

I don't see how what he said is irrelevant. Megatron is a character--what he does doesn't always have to make *sense.* He's allowed to be crazy and occasionally stupid. He's allowed to be overkill and continue conquering the planet, even if he's got an army large enough to conquer it five times over. If that's what Megs wants to do, he's allowed--he's Megatron!

Relating the Nazis is irrelevant the the discussion at hand. It has nothing to do with Megatron and his motivations.

And I'd disagree that Megatron is "allowed" to be "crazy and occasionally stupid". This version of Megatron we've seen is more intelligent and calculating than that. Take his Infiltration Protocols for example. He doesn't mind taking a slow and calculated route to conquer planets with as minimal troops as is necessary for the job. His carelessness and oversights in this story is out of character for him.

Perhaps Megatron has other things on his mind, and is ignoring the flaws in his plan. Especially since none of the Decepticons would dare object to it.

Right, Megatron has something else on his mind that would distract him from his main goals now that the Autobots are out of the picture. And clearly Starscream and those that stood with him aren't afraid to stand up to Megatron.

[Dominic]

Hey hey hey! GUESS WHO GOT ONLY 2 HOURS OF SLEEP IN THE LAST 24!

My contention is that the "true" test of someone's character isn't REALLY tested in the usual ho hum 9-5. On an average day, I get up, go to work, come home and that's about it. Usually, my "character" isn't really tested. It's the unusual, the extraordinary and the sometimes terrible that really tests people's moral fiber and the strength of their character. Sure, it changes people, you're at least right about that. After all, if such circumstances didn't change people, we'd never learn and grow. For any given situation, be it normal or unusual, there are several different possible ways to react. Which reaction someone goes with is what shows their character.

This depends on how you view personality and temperment. Are they inherent to the person, or are they reactive? If one assumes they are reactive, then the "true" individual is the one reacting to normal situations, and the stressed personality is the abnormality. (Think of somebody trying to downplay bad behavior by attributing it to stress.)

I do see what you are saying though. I am just tired and scattered right now. One of my clients just, for the sheer heck of it, brought me a big ol' cup of coffee. She is feeding my addiction. She really should not do this. I really should not let her. But, caffeine is so good.

And in the case of Transformers day to day ho hum, exactly, the war's been going for millions of years so war IS the day to day ho hum for them.

Good point. People can redefine normalcy and deviance more easily than they suspect. A friend of mine grew up quite wealthy by most standards. (I conceptually, but not operationally, understand how he grew up.) But, he moved away from home at 19, and lived quite roughly for several years. When he was 22, he hunt out with a friend (who was then attending Yale). He was *amazed* by how different their points of reference were. The Yalie was still a nice enough guy, but the contrasts between them were different. "Normal" for my friend was incomprehensible to the Yalie, and vice versa.

Conquering is one thing, but AHM is what you'd call overkill.

Keep in mind, the idea behind attacking Earth was team-building. To again use a Nazi/WWII analogy, (heheheheheheh, I said a word with "anal" in it), this would be like the Soviets taking Berlin at the end of the war. They *really* let the Germans know who lost that one. Oh boy, did they ever let the Germans know.

The analogy is not perfect, as the taking of Berline involved a good deal of come-uppance. But, there was still a team-building elements to it.

The fact that Earth is no real challenge is more or less irrelevant to all of that.

You are close. The idea is that Earth not being a challenge is what caused Megatron's problems. If he gave the Decepticons a better challange, they likely could have kept it together better. Megatron blew it. (I have no problem with Megatron blowing it of course.) Megatron would be happy to get rid of dissent by giving everyone a common goal. But, Megatron is not a very inspirational leader.

We learn from that situation that either Mirage is very forgiving to save the life of Ironhide, or he's loyal enough to the Autobots to save one of their own even if Ironhide was a douchebag to him before.

Mirage totally should have whacked Ironhide, and made it look like an accident.

"This is my plan, Starscream!"
"That plan makes no sense, you're an idiot."
"I have a cannon three times the size of your head on my arm."
"All Hail Megatron!"

Starscream actually does make those objections in issue 5. He calls Megatron out on that fact he is stalling.

This version of Megatron we've seen is more intelligent and calculating than that.

There is a difference between being intelligent and being perfect.


Dom
-just wants to go to sleep.

[Onslaught Six]

If it is a coloring mistake, then they did it a lot because Rumble shows up in issues after that as well.

Then I guess he's not dead.

That would be the opposite of Sparky's point actually, as I'm saying what someone does in an extraordinary situation isn't necessarily a true showing of their "true nature". As I talked about with Ironhide earlier.

Strike that, reverse it. I'm an idiot and was actually trying to disagree with you and agree with ShockTrekkie.

[Shockwave]

This depends on how you view personality and temperment. Are they inherent to the person, or are they reactive? If one assumes they are reactive, then the "true" individual is the one reacting to normal situations, and the stressed personality is the abnormality. (Think of somebody trying to downplay bad behavior by attributing it to stress.)

I do see what you are saying though. I am just tired and scattered right now. One of my clients just, for the sheer heck of it, brought me a big ol' cup of coffee. She is feeding my addiction. She really should not do this. I really should not let her. But, caffeine is so good.

Dude, you gotta take better care of yourself. 2 hrs of sleep. Damn.

Anyway, I tend to think of it more in AD&D terms. You know like everyone has a certain "alignment". It was really well put in the AD&D 2nd ed Player's Handbook when it talks about alignment and playing a game where all of the different players are playing all of the possible different alignments and how, if they all play it correctly according to their alignments, they wouldn't get along. I'm basically arguing that someone's true alignment isn't shown unless their in situations that necessitate showing it. Like if a party is mortal peril, would a character sacrifice himself so that the rest could get away (chaotic good), or go running to save himself (neutral, possibly neutral evil), or worse sacrifice the rest of the party to save himself (chaotic evil)?

Anyway... Sparky: Dom and O6 get my point so I've obviously articulated it well enough. At this point I really believe you're just determined to disagree with everything I say and I'm not going to keep beating my head against a wall for no reason. You disagree with me, fine. Whatever makes you a happy Transfan. Just like the Starscream/Matrix thing, I'm done arguing this.

[andersonh1]

Is the second TPB out yet? Not that I have money to buy it.

It is out. I saw it today in the comics shop. Not that I have the money to buy it either, and I suppose I should buy TPB 1 first.

edit: ok, I missed that several others had seen it too.

Has Devastation ever come out in TPB form? I missed that particular miniseries, and back issues are scarce locally.

[andersonh1]

I can see being bothered by what Prowl has done. But, I really cannot say it was that bad. Kup was a vegetable at that point, and Prowl needed a way to productively motivate the troops.

I have no problem with repairing Kup, even if it does involve an addiction to help keep him stable and sane. That's not that much different from being dependent on blood pressure medicine or something similar. But doing something to Kup's brain in order to essentially make him Prowl's mouthpiece is very questionable morally.

It is probably a safe bet that these ideas will never be followed up though, given that IDW is changing direction again.

I hope they do follow up. It's an interesting turn of events, with plenty of story potential.

[Dominic]

I just could not sleep last night, and I am getting so few hours at work that I cannot afford to not go in.

I am actually going to go home and crash. I might post a "tired blog", depending on my mental state.

I helped like 6 clients today, because apparently they all knew I was tired.


Using Kup as a mouthpiece is just a way for Prowl to motivate the troops. It is not like Kup's rights are being compromised, as he was a vegetable.

I agree that it is unfortunate that IDW is not likely to follow up with any of this.


Dom
-just wants to sleep.......

[Sparky Prime]

Keep in mind, the idea behind attacking Earth was team-building.

So you keep saying but I see little evidence that was what Megatron was actually trying to accomplish. Getting his army to fight each other is hardly a way to team build.

There is a difference between being intelligent and being perfect.

Indeed. Megatron isn't perfect, I'd concede that much. However, given what his plans were, clearly he should have anticipated things wouldn't go as well as he'd hoped.

[Shockwave]

Keep in mind, the idea behind attacking Earth was team-building.

So you keep saying but I see little evidence that was what Megatron was actually trying to accomplish. Getting his army to fight each other is hardly a way to team build.

I agree, it wasn't team building, it was weeding out unwanted elements. What he wanted was something akin to the Klingon Empire where people advance through strength and power, having crushed their predecessors beneath them. What he had was several "thinkers" who deceive their way to power through trickery. By letting them pursue their vendettas, he was allowing the strong to overpower the weak and be left with his ideal of the Mackiavelian Empire that he envisioned.