Beast Wars - The Ascending trade paperback

[Dominic]

The lost stasis pods of course, and as it was in the Beast Wars cartoon, how important those potential troops would be for either side.

By "saying something", I meant more than just rehasing old threads from a cancelled show. I assumed most of the pods were destroyed or otherwise lost, with maybe a few birthing guys like Ramulus, who would generally stay out of trouble.

Season 3 was horrible, largely for Mainframe's intrusive gags, but also for the writing.

"Exo-Squad" had its moments. But, it had enough problems that I cannot get behind saying it was awesome.

Dom
-wants a good BW reboot.

[Sparky Prime]

By "saying something", I meant more than just rehasing old threads from a cancelled show. I assumed most of the pods were destroyed or otherwise lost, with maybe a few birthing guys like Ramulus, who would generally stay out of trouble.

Personally, I've always liked the idea someone actually looking for the lost pods, as Tigatron and Airazor were attempting to do before they got abducted. But we certainly see several pods had survived in the cartoon so it makes sense that there would be more of them out there and someone would take an interest in them. I don't care if it is a rehash of a thread from the cartoon, it doesn't make it any less interesting to me, and was a perfect way to introduce a spin off story based on the cartoon. I'd also add BW was hardly canceled, given BM was a direct continuation of the story.

[Dominic]

"Beast Machines" was not a continuation of "Beast Wars". It was a change in direction mandated by Hasbro, effectively cancelling "Beast Wars".

Dom
-has been thinking about "Beast Machines" of late.

[Sparky Prime]

"Beast Machines" was not a continuation of "Beast Wars". It was a change in direction mandated by Hasbro, effectively cancelling "Beast Wars".

A direction change isn't the same thing as canceling in my view. Beast Machines was a direct continuation of the story Beast Wars started. Heck, it's title in Japan was even "Beast Wars Returns".

[Onslaught Six]

BW also didn't get BM until something like 2005. They got Car Robots instead.

While BM may have been a direct continuation of the story, that *does not* mean BW wasn't cancelled--ended, effectively and definitively. BM had an entirely different writing staff.

It'd be like trying to argue that Furman's Revelation story arc wasn't cancelled as a six-issue series (and then shafted to the Spotlights) so that AHM--a change in direction and writing staff--could happen.

For Hasbro's purposes, BM is not a continuation of Beast Wars--if it was, it would've still been named Beast Wars. But fictionally and canonically speaking, it is.

[Sparky Prime]

BW also didn't get BM until something like 2005. They got Car Robots instead.

So...? They also got BWII and BW Neo while they waited for the rest of Beast Wars to be translated and dubbed. That doesn't mean Beast Wars Metals is a different show.

While BM may have been a direct continuation of the story, that *does not* mean BW wasn't cancelled--ended, effectively and definitively. BM had an entirely different writing staff.

A cancellation is when a show is terminated usually because of low viewership or bad reviews. This was not the case with Beast Wars. Rather, as a creative decision by Hasbro, the main story arc of Beast Wars was concluded (not canceled) but the story continued in the form of Beast Machines. And what does having a new writing staff have to do with anything? Plenty of shows and projects get new creative teams all the time.

It'd be like trying to argue that Furman's Revelation story arc wasn't cancelled as a six-issue series (and then shafted to the Spotlights) so that AHM--a change in direction and writing staff--could happen.

Furman's storyline is another matter entirely. In that situation, IDW was seeing a declining readership and decided to cut it short so they could try and shake things up with AHM.

For Hasbro's purposes, BM is not a continuation of Beast Wars--if it was, it would've still been named Beast Wars. But fictionally and canonically speaking, it is.

That is utter nonsense. You don't change the name of the show with out changing the name of the toyline as well.

[Onslaught Six]

So...? They also got BWII and BW Neo while they waited for the rest of Beast Wars to be translated and dubbed. That doesn't mean Beast Wars Metals is a different show.

My point is that Japan's changes came years after the fact and shouldn't be used as some kind of vilification for your point.

A cancellation is when a show is terminated usually because of low viewership or bad reviews. This was not the case with Beast Wars. Rather, as a creative decision by Hasbro, the main story arc of Beast Wars was concluded (not canceled) but the story continued in the form of Beast Machines. And what does having a new writing staff have to do with anything? Plenty of shows and projects get new creative teams all the time.

Actually, the future of BW was 'always' a mystery, with every season. Perhaps "cancelled" isn't the right word to use here, but rather, "not renewed." Since that's exactly what happened.

Dom, quit making minor points and then not responding for ages, letting us argue about it instead! Fight your own battles! 'Jerk!'

That is utter nonsense. You don't change the name of the show with out changing the name of the toyline as well.

I...who said they would change only the show name? You completely misinterpreted my point.

Look, the point is, even if BM is a "continuation" of BW, it's still its own, seperate entity. Just like how Armada, Energon and Cybertron are all seperate from each other.

[Sparky Prime]

My point is that Japan's changes came years after the fact and shouldn't be used as some kind of vilification for your point.

What changes? The show was still in essence Beast Machines, just translated into Japanese and called Beast Wars Returns.

Actually, the future of BW was 'always' a mystery, with every season. Perhaps "cancelled" isn't the right word to use here, but rather, "not renewed." Since that's exactly what happened.

"Not renewed" implies the network didn't pick up the show for another season and that isn't what happened at all. Like I said, Beast Wars being concluded is a more appropriate term, yet the story was still continued as Beast Machines.

I...who said they would change only the show name? You completely misinterpreted my point.

It's how you phrased it. You said Hasbro would still call Beast Machines Beast Wars if it had been a continuation. This isn't really an inaccurate statement. The toyline and show was given a new name to reflect the changes in the over all storyline given the conflict that was Beast Wars was concluded and a new conflict in a new setting rose from it.

Look, the point is, even if BM is a "continuation" of BW, it's still its own, seperate entity. Just like how Armada, Energon and Cybertron are all seperate from each other.

That's somewhat of a dubious comment as well given AEC had an extremely shaky continuity between shows, to the point that they didn't really mesh together. True in essence they are separate entities, Beast Machines however was treated more like seasons 4 and 5 of Beast Wars rather than a whole new show.

[BWprowl]

That's somewhat of a dubious comment as well given AEC had an extremely shaky continuity between shows, to the point that they didn't really mesh together. True in essence they are separate entities, Beast Machines however was treated more like seasons 4 and 5 of Beast Wars rather than a whole new show.

I'd disagree here completely. New setting, totally different story direction and art style. Barely half the cast returned from 'Beast Wars'. New *theme song*. Hell, Megatron even tells Primal in the second episode that the Beast Wars "are over", pretty much firmly establishing to me that Beast Machines Is Not Beast Wars. It picks up characters and elements from its predecessor, but this is definitely a case of one story concluding and another starting up. That some people have proven that it's possible to enjoy Beast Machines without having watched Beast Wars backs this point up.

[onslaught86]

My point is that, yeah, BW has the characters emoting and it has capable voice acting. Uh, when did that kind of thing stop being *standard* and *expected* of shows? Why is BW instantly OMG AWESOME because it did...what every other cartoon in 1998 was doing? (And it has to be 1998, because BW didn't even get that good until Season 2.)

Hmm, I think that stopped right about when poorly dubbing shitty anime and churning it out as cheap advertising for franchises became the norm, there. And it spawned a generation of people who loved it as kids, then realised it sucked and the original Japanese versions were much better thanks to not being poorly dubbed, preached the glories of Japan, then realised that a lot of animation is crap no matter what language it's in, and settled for picking and choosing the good bits. Oh wait, that's you guys! Heh heh.

I can agree that BW was above the average for the time, as I saw a good many 90s cartoons. But, the average was pretty low. Yeah, there was some good stuff, like "Batman: The Animated Series". But, this was also the decade that gave us "Street Sharks", "Gargoyles" (which Disney lacked the intellectual capital to handle correctly), "GI Joe Extreme", and "Exo Squad" (wow, a WWII parable where the good guys fight so stupidly I wind up rooting for the Nazi-proxies).

Really, Dom? Gargoyles? I always thought that was remarkably above par, and brought in some fantastic historical elements that inspired, in me at least, an early appreciation for them.

- o86, who seriously did first discover Shakespeare's Puck via Gargoyles, and loved Street Sharks like others loved TMNT.