TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Money, violence, sex, computer graphics, scatalogical humor, racism, robots designed to be rednecks but given European accents, and maybe another sequel to the saga... what's not to love? TF m1, Revenge of the Fallen, Dark of the Moon and now Age of Extinction.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Sparky Prime »

JediTricks wrote:I did understand the point, I just don't agree with it.
You're not even addressing my point here. The first thing you said was simply DOTM didn't sell well and that your own point had nothing to do with a lack of quality. I wasn't talking about what you said at all, I was talking about Tigermegatron said about the toys not selling well because he didn't like how they looked. But the first two movie lines sold extremely well. And even DOTM started out strong according to Hasbro's own reports. All you're doing is disagreeing that quarterly report doesn't reflect consumers. Fine, but that's NOT the point I'm making here.
In any case though, you're right that there's certainly no reason to claim that the aesthetic is the cause for the DOTM line's failure, the problem wasn't the movie aesthetic as that was previously very successful.
Thank you, that's all I was saying. No need to complicate it beyond that.
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Tigermegatron
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Tigermegatron »

Sparky Prime wrote:
JediTricks wrote:Not DOTM, but my argument is that the poor performance there is due to the toy line's lack of quality.
Well DOTM's toy sales started out strong according to Hasbro's [url=htt://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/transfor ... ond-212430]2011 2nd Quarter Profits report[/url]. Obviously by the end of the year, it didn't preform as well as they expected. And I don't disagree with your argument, I was just telling Tigermegatron that the movie toys sold pretty good in general (and extremely well for RotF), despite his own personal opinion that they didn't because he doesn't like how they look.
JediTricks wrote: Profits reports are about retailer orders, not market takeaway (aka consumer purchases). All those early reports for DOTM tell us is that retailers ordered early and hard, it doesn't reflect consumer purchases from said retailers. The end-of-year report reflects that retailers didn't order much additional product because consumers didn't buy up a lot of the original product they had on shelves.
JediTricks wrote:
Sparky Prime wrote:
JediTricks wrote:Profits reports are about retailer orders, not market takeaway (aka consumer purchases). All those early reports for DOTM tell us is that retailers ordered early and hard, it doesn't reflect consumer purchases from said retailers. The end-of-year report reflects that retailers didn't order much additional product because consumers didn't buy up a lot of the original product they had on shelves.
You're missing the point here entirely, which is that the movie toy lines still sold pretty well despite Tigermegatron thinking they didn't because he doesn't like the way they look. DotM may not have done as well by the end of the year, but it still started out strong by given reports and that decline does not reflect the aesthetic of the designs given the other movie lines didn't have that problemI did understand the point, I just don't agree with it. Retailers ordered a lot of product before knowing if audiences would like the look of the product, that pumped up early returns but didn't say anything about actual market interests. The actual market takeaway was much lower than expected. Does that speak to how the product looked as characters? Not specifically. My argument before was that the market liked how the movie aesthetic looked, Movie and ROTF sold very well, my argument had been that the market didn't like DOTM's smaller product and simpler designs coupled with higher prices.

In any case though, you're right that there's certainly no reason to claim that the aesthetic is the cause for the DOTM line's failure, the problem wasn't the movie aesthetic as that was previously very successful.

But the DOTM line never did well, you can still see its failure on shelves today, TRU has resorted to giving them away, Target has repackaged discount sets and STILL can't sell them on clearance, that first wave failed at market and is still failing at market 2 years later.
Jedi Is correct & Sparky Prime is Wrong.

I & other on-line Fans have been saying the same exact things that Jedi is trying to explain to Sparky.

USA retailer stores over ordered in the Beginning months/year in advance,most stores had stock piles in the back waiting for the street release date to stock shelves/pegs. USA Stores probably did their over-ordering for the first wave or two based off the high sales of the 2007 TF Movie & ROTF toys sales.

The DOTM toys didn't sell that well,did badly in sales,Some items like the Voyagers got reduced in price after a few weeks of release from $20 to $15. The DOTM Toy line did so badly in USA stores,That Hasbro had no choice but to cancel the toy line in 6 months. USA stores refused to order newer assortment waves due to so many un-sold shelves/pegs warmers.

Hasbro Had originally planned for the DOTM toy line to last more than 6 months in stores. Since retailers were not ordering newer assortment waves at a decent pace. Hasbro cancelled the DOTM toy line in late december/early January. A whole bunch of newer & repainted DOTM toys never arrived in USA stores Because Hasbro had to cancel DOTM due to stores not wanting to order any newer product.

The proof that DOTM was meant to be more than a 6 month toy line. Is that Hasbro released newer & repainted DOTM toys in those Asian countries,maybe canade. Takara in Japan kept the DOTM toy line going beyond 6 months in Japanese stores/sites by releasing newer products,repaints & retools.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Sparky Prime »

Tigermegatron wrote:Jedi Is correct & Sparky Prime is Wrong.
JediTricks wrote:In any case though, you're right that there's certainly no reason to claim that the aesthetic is the cause for the DOTM line's failure, the problem wasn't the movie aesthetic as that was previously very successful.
Looks to me like he agreed with the point I was actually making.

If you notice I didn't dispute him *at all* that the quarterly reports doesn't reflect consumers sales because that had nothing to do with the point I was making there nor was what I was saying. I only brought that up because Hasbro said DOTM's sales started out strong, regardless of how the line ended up with the consumers. How well it sold had nothing to do with the aesthetic as you suggested earlier, which again, was the point I was making.
Last edited by Sparky Prime on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Tigermegatron »

Sparky Prime wrote:
Tigermegatron wrote:Jedi Is correct & Sparky Prime is Wrong.
Jeditricks wrote:In any case though, you're right that there's certainly no reason to claim that the aesthetic is the cause for the DOTM line's failure, the problem wasn't the movie aesthetic as that was previously very successful.
Looks to me like he agreed with the point I was actually making.
Are you serious?

Sparky,your original argument in this thread was that the DOTM toy line didn't do bad in stores due to the high sales figures that you claimed Hasbro provided. Jedi,I & others pointed out this was due to USA retail stores over ordering on the first wave or 2 months/year in advance before the dotm toys even got stocked on shelves. the stores over ordered based of high sales of the 2007 TF Movie & DOTM toys sales.

JEDI,I & OTHERS POINTED OUT THAT ONLY THE FIRST WAVE OR 2 OF DOTM TOYS GOT OVER ORDERED. THE OTHER WAVES GOT LESS RETAIL ORDERS DUE TO CUSTOMERS NOT WANTING TO BUY THE DOTM TOYS AT A DECENT BUYING PACE.

SPARKY,There were reasons why the DOTM toys didn't sell well in USA stores,got quickly clearanced then canceled after only 6 months.

TO THINK THERE WERE NO REASONS MAKES NO SENSE.

TF fans & HASBRO'S PR Crew came up with the following speculation reason why the DOTM toys did so badly in stores in USA 2011.
1- The bad economy,so many un-employed,no raises,fear of losing there jobs,etc... toys are luxury nor necessity items.
2- parents/kids didn't want to buy DOTM toys because they looked too similar to 2007 movie & ROTF toys they already owned.
3- DOTM toys had more short cuts,smaller in their size scales,too many smalls,not enough bigs.
4- DOTM toys designs & engineering was low quality compared to 2007 movie & ROTF toys.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Sparky Prime »

Tigermegatron wrote:Sparky,your original argument in this thread was that the DOTM toy line didn't do bad in stores due to the high sales figures that you claimed Hasbro provided.
No, it was not. This was my original arguement:
Sparky Prime wrote:Just because you didn't like the look of the Transformers from the movies doesn't mean they didn't work for the toy lines... The movie toy lines actually sold very well according to Hasbro's quarterly profit reports during those years. Especially the Revenge of the Fallen toy line in 2009.
I didn't say anything about DOTM there. And we do know for a fact the first movie and ROTF did a lot better than DOTM with consumers.

Nor did I say there was no reasons DOTM did poorly. All I said is that the aesthetic of the figures had nothing to do with it as you suggested.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Tigermegatron »

Sparky Prime wrote:
Tigermegatron wrote:Sparky,your original argument in this thread was that the DOTM toy line didn't do bad in stores due to the high sales figures that you claimed Hasbro provided.
No, it was not. This was my original arguement:
Sparky Prime wrote:Just because you didn't like the look of the Transformers from the movies doesn't mean they didn't work for the toy lines... The movie toy lines actually sold very well according to Hasbro's quarterly profit reports during those years. Especially the Revenge of the Fallen toy line in 2009.
I didn't say anything about DOTM there. And we do know for a fact the first movie and ROTF did a lot better than DOTM with consumers.

Nor did I say there was no reasons DOTM did poorly. All I said is that the aesthetic of the figures had nothing to do with it as you suggested.
aesthetic/designs,Hasbro & Internet TF fans speculated was one of the major reasons why The DOTM toys sold worse in sales compared to the 2007 Movie & ROTF toys. Parents/kids bought bought less of the DOTM toys due to the aesthetic/designs being too similar to the 2007 Movie & DOTM toys they already owned.

aesthetic/designs,Hasbro reduced the DOTM toy budget,which resulted in more short cuts in sculpt,engineering,lighter/less plastic,toys were smaller in thier size classes,etc.. a lower toy line budget affects all areas of the toy not just one isolated area.
The DOTM aesthetic/designs were inferior to the 2007 movie & ROTF toys aesthetic/DESIGNS
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Shockwave »

Deathy, the designs didn't have anything to do with it. And Sparky's right (and so is JT), there is a diferrence between profit reports and retail sales. The fact that they were shitty toys is why they tanked at retail and that's why the line was cancelled later. But, retailers bought a shitload of them right out the gate which is why Hasbro reported such huge profits to begin with. The Aesthetic of the toys had nothing to do with it being cancelled.

But hey, when have we ever been able to convince you of anything once you're set on beleiving it? You'll still think this is why it tanked and all I can say is, it's a free country and you have the right to be wrong.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Sparky Prime »

Shockwave wrote:Deathy, the designs didn't have anything to do with it.
Exactly right.
Tigermegatron wrote:aesthetic/designs,Hasbro & Internet TF fans speculated was one of the major reasons why The DOTM toys sold worse in sales compared to the 2007 Movie & ROTF toys. Parents/kids bought bought less of the DOTM toys due to the aesthetic/designs being too similar to the 2007 Movie & DOTM toys they already owned.
None of that has anything to do with aesthetics or design. Just because people bought figures from the 2007 line certainly didn't stop them from getting the ROTF versions. Or even other versions of the same character from the same line, seeing as Hasbro makes multiple versions of the same characters with different gimmicks and size classes for each film.
aesthetic/designs,Hasbro reduced the DOTM toy budget,which resulted in more short cuts in sculpt,engineering,lighter/less plastic,toys were smaller in thier size classes,etc.. a lower toy line budget affects all areas of the toy not just one isolated area.
Aesthetics and design has nothing to do with reducing the toys budget. Transformers across the entire franchise were reduced. The same thing happened with Generations and Prime, both of which have their own aesthetic.
The DOTM aesthetic/designs were inferior to the 2007 movie & ROTF toys aesthetic/DESIGNS
Aesthetics are the general look of the characters and that did not change between movies. Really the designs didn't change that either, other than for some small details or gimmicks.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Tigermegatron »

Shockwave wrote:Deathy, the designs didn't have anything to do with it. And Sparky's right (and so is JT), there is a diferrence between profit reports and retail sales. The fact that they were shitty toys is why they tanked at retail and that's why the line was cancelled later. But, retailers bought a shitload of them right out the gate which is why Hasbro reported such huge profits to begin with. The Aesthetic of the toys had nothing to do with it being cancelled.

But hey, when have we ever been able to convince you of anything once you're set on beleiving it? You'll still think this is why it tanked and all I can say is, it's a free country and you have the right to be wrong.
JT is right,Deathy is right,Sparky is wrong & so is Shockwave wrong. :mrgreen:

JT is right because he said the main reason why DOTM toy sales were so high because this reflects what retailers over-ordered on the first wave or 2 months/year in advance orders. Stores over-ordered in advance based off high 2007 movie & ROTF toy sales. Once the DOTM toys arrived in stores,Buyers didn't buy them at a decent pace. resulting in USA stores have shelves/pegs warmers,which prevented stores from ordering newer waves. Hasbro was forced to cancel the DOTM toys due to stores not wanting the toys.

Deathy is Right,Because there were reasons why Parents refused to buy the DOTM toys. Reasons were: Economy,budget cuts that caused weaker plastic,uglier sculpts,smaller toys in their size classes,more smalls,less bigs,inferior engineering. A lower toy budget affects all areas of a toy not just one isolated area as they work together to create a toy. if the toy budget was higher the crew could have had more stages in the toy developement,like more art sketches,more test shots,more team leaders checking the work,testing the stages to improve on sculpt,enginerring,etc..

Sparky is wrong because he ORIGINALLY thought the USA DOTM toy line was a huge success in stores/with buyers. As he incorrectly stated/read the Hasbro 2011 DOTM toy sales charts. Apparently he was oblivious to the DOTM toys not selling well in USA stores. He was un-aware the toys went on clearance within months of it's release date. un-aware buyers not buying them at a decent pace. stores not ordering newer waves at a decent pace. Hasbro being forced to cancel the DOTM toy line 6 months after it's release date.

Spark is wrong,Because he believes there were no reasons that caused the DOTM toys to get canceled by hasbro in the USA. he probably thinks hasbro ran out of product or it was intended to be a short/6 month toy line. This ofcause is in-correct as a whole bunch of new molds/repaints got canceled for USA stores. The DOTM toys had more release months in 2012 in Various Asian countries,Japan & Canada.

Shockwave is wrong,Because like previous threads,Shockwave doesn't bother reading the full replies in a thread. All shockwave does is read a few words,assume the wrong thing & post counter replies that never make sense & are always wrong.
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Re: TF4 robots Re-designs,can't be any worse than DOTM toys.

Post by Sparky Prime »

Tigermegatron wrote:Sparky is wrong because he ORIGINALLY thought the USA DOTM toy line was a huge success in stores/with buyers. As he incorrectly stated/read the Hasbro 2011 DOTM toy sales charts. Apparently he was oblivious to the DOTM toys not selling well in USA stores. He was un-aware the toys went on clearance within months of it's release date. un-aware buyers not buying them at a decent pace. stores not ordering newer waves at a decent pace. Hasbro being forced to cancel the DOTM toy line 6 months after it's release date.
No, I did not. If you actually read my first post that I even mentioned DOTM, I said Hasbro's 2011 second quarter profit report (which I even posted a link to an article about) stated those sales were strong at that time of the year. That much is a fact, regardless of those sales being based off of retail or consumers, which is why I didn't mention it one way or another in that post. And I never, at any time, said DOTM was a huge success. In fact, I said in the very next sentence of that same post, that by the end of the year it obviously did not perform as well as expected.

And once again, in my original argument I was saying the aesthetics of the toys had nothing to do with poor sales as you had suggested, referring the the sales of all 3 movie lines, in-particular ROTF.
Spark is wrong,Because he believes there were no reasons that caused the DOTM toys to get canceled by hasbro in the USA. he probably thinks hasbro ran out of product or it was intended to be a short/6 month toy line. This ofcause is in-correct as a whole bunch of new molds/repaints got canceled for USA stores. The DOTM toys had more release months in 2012 in Various Asian countries,Japan & Canada.
So I take it you glossed over my post where I said "Nor did I say there was no reasons DOTM did poorly."? Because, I never said there was no reason.
Shockwave is wrong,Because like previous threads,Shockwave doesn't bother reading the full replies in a thread. All shockwave does is read a few words,assume the wrong thing & post counter replies that never make sense & are always wrong.
Considering you haven't gotten one thing I actually said correct, it isn't Shockwave that's not bothering to read the full replies and is assuming the wrong things here...
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