Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

The IDW Comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's now significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade.
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andersonh1
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by andersonh1 »

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If the Autobots had destroyed the sparks, that would be an outrage approaching the level of the type of things Decepticons have done. Putting the titan sparks in storage could be considered imprisonment at worst, if they're sentient without a body. Or it could be considered cold storage, per Sparky's example, and the process of bringing them fully to life could still be carried out. Yeah, it's clearly a problem given the reverence that Transformers society has been shown to hold towards new life in this series, and the previous two Primes kept it secret precisely because they knew the public would not approve. But the logic behind the decision at least makes sense.

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Dominic
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issue 30

Post by Dominic »

The Autobot's disposal of the Titan sparks is still monstrous. It only "makes sense" as an expedient for maintaining a planned economy and the illusion of their ideology having a moral foundation.

As you point out above
Spoiler
the Autobots have a stated reverence for new life, but are containing Titans as they are born,

This also raises a question about surplus sparks in general. If Titan sparks are being "born" unplanned or uncalled, then what about normal sparks? Is there a warehouse full of robo-embryos being held back for a more convenient time?
Of course, as shown in issue 30, the Decepticons are also guilty of some fairly dreadul behavior.

Issue 30:
Spoiler
Megatron accuses Optimus of mourning the dead Titans as lost assets, rather than simply being dead.

The Titans epitomize the very Cybertronians that Megatron claimed to be standing for when he called for a less managed economy for Cybertron. Megatron casually murdered most, if not all, of them.

Megatron (through the Decepticons) also destroyed the source of new Cybertronians, which also runs counter to his focus on expanding Cybretronian influence.

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Re: issue 30

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 1:00 pm
The Autobot's disposal of the Titan sparks is still monstrous.
You make it sound like the Autobots purposefully had the Titan sparks killed, when all they did was put them into storage. Those sparks weren't 'disposed of' at all. Now I'd agree, there's certainly some question as to the morals here, but it's hardly "monstrous" as you're portraying it, especially if they could have been fully developed, given the resources, at some later date.
Spoiler
This also raises a question about surplus sparks in general. If Titan sparks are being "born" unplanned or uncalled, then what about normal sparks? Is there a warehouse full of robo-embryos being held back for a more convenient time?
Spoiler
We kinda were already shown that unexpected births with normal sparks does sometimes occur, as was the case with Cliffjumper being born a few hours after Bumblebee. But given that a Titan would take up far greater resources than an average citizen, I'd have to imagine it's not as big of a deal to adapt their resources when there are unexpected 'normal' sparks.

Unless there are far more spark birth's happening in general than we've been led to believe...

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Dominic
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

If the Maximals can control for sparks emerging, then they would simply not release any Titan sparks (which makes how they dispose of the Titans even worse). As evidenced by Cliffjumper, they cannot control it, which means that they are probably keeping more than Titans in cold storage (which is consistent with the planned economy they seem to have).

The Autobots are commies.

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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 9:19 am
If the Maximals can control for sparks emerging, then they would simply not release any Titan sparks (which makes how they dispose of the Titans even worse). As evidenced by Cliffjumper, they cannot control it, which means that they are probably keeping more than Titans in cold storage (which is consistent with the planned economy they seem to have).

The Autobots are commies.
Cliffjumper, along with the Titan sparks, might prove they don't have complete control over the release of new sparks, but if they were keeping normal sparks in storage as well, then why didn't they put Cliffjumper's spark into storage when it emerged from the Well of Allsparks? Why was he forged a body and allowed to join the population? And why wouldn't all of this all come to light along with the Titan sparks that were being kept in storage? It makes no sense for Cliffjumper to be forged if what you suggest was true.

And once again, putting sparks in storage is NOT the same thing as disposing of them.

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andersonh1
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by andersonh1 »

It's not a question of a "planned economy". The motivation for everything that Nominus and then Sentinel Prime did was to contain the Transformers, to prevent expansion out into the galaxy and prevent them from being seen as a threat to others. There are clearly colony worlds and relations with other races, as we've seen, but Nominus did not want the Transformers to be seen as a danger after the war of the threefold spark, in which other races were badly affected. We just saw an example of that in issue 30, where Pyra Magna destroyed Turmoil's ship with all hands because of what he'd done to an alien planet.

Economics is not the underlying motivation. Peaceful relations with other races is the motivation. As Perceptor said in issue 29, Titans demand so many resources to construct that they create a need for expansion, in order to gather the resources needed. The Nominus edict contains and slows the growth of Cybertronian society in the name of peaceful relations, and any effect on the economy is a side-effect, not the primary goal.

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Dominic
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Dominic »

Cybertron's economy included "free stuff" (in the form of rations that they were strongly encouraged to accept).

And, curtailing one's own population (regardless of how that process is defined) for the sake of containing the species is....dubious at best. And, it shows why Megatron's initial pusht had some legitimate appeal.

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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by andersonh1 »

Dominic wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm
And, curtailing one's own population (regardless of how that process is defined) for the sake of containing the species is....dubious at best.
Agreed, but I understand the reasoning behind the decision.
And, it shows why Megatron's initial pusht had some legitimate appeal.
Megatron had some legitimate grievances. He just chose the worst possible way to address them, i.e. armed revolution and overthrow of the legitimate government, paired with terrorism and murder.

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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Ursus mellifera »

It all makes me again wonder about how conscious the spark releases are. As in, did Cybertron purposely release titan sparks in order to encourage expansion, or is it just randomized?

I also want to know what makes a titan spark different from any other. Sparks, from what I understand, are massless balls of energy, so I doubt it's just the size that makes them titan sparks.
Check it out, a honey bear! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinkajou

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Ursus mellifera
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Re: Transformers 2019 (IDW comic series) discussion

Post by Ursus mellifera »

Wait, wait a second, because I need to know.
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What the ACTUAL FUCK kind of divine powers does Windcharger have?!
Has he always been able to do that, and I missed it somehow?
Check it out, a honey bear! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinkajou

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