Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
User avatar
JediTricks
Site Admin
Posts: 3851
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: LA, CA, USA

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:I would disagree about Beachcomber and Cliffjumper. Cliffjumper is an intentional mediocrity. And, Beachcomber did get screen time.
I'm not saying Beachcomber and Cliff aren't characters too, I'm just saying the market doesn't demand them in the same way - perhaps because Beachcomber is a boring hippie, and Cliff is basically just red Bumblebee. ;)
My comment about Brawn is also about relevance. When is the last time he showed up and did anything?
Doesn't matter, he was fun when he mattered and hasn't had a real toy since then. Why not have him?
"Generations" Wheeljack is a good generalized Wheeljack. But, it does not look enough like the comics to represent the character as seen in the comics.
To me, that's par for the course, the comics stylize and cybertronize characters in ways the toys won't, so either go 3rd party or accept the differences, that's my philosophy. Whirl doesn't look that much like his comics version, but it still gets me there.

Is there an image you can share that shows IDW Wheeljack that would inform how the existing figure doesn't get there? I'm quite curious on this one, for some reason.

Scourge wrote:I would love a Brawn in the same scale as like Swerve and Tailgate. If he could look as good as thosee two that'd be pretty keen. I think he wss rumored to be a thing, but canceled. :(
Swerve really makes it hard not to want mini-vehicles characters that scale, he's such a satisfying figure with so much personality and such good sculpt and paint. I wonder if that rumor was accurate at all.
Ratchet and Ironhide yes please. I tried to like their Universe toys but yeesh those things are rough.
For me, it was that inability to finish the transformation so that the chest locked down right and the head raised up all the way. Had the engineering not misfired, I at least would have felt like its issues were surmountable, but the fact that it needs significant customizing just to transform the way it was intended breaks it.
I'm pretty happy with Hound, I thought they pulled him off pretty well. I cant really see what they'd do differently on a new one.
I was picturing something bigger, more squared off, more detailing.
More old Mini-bots in that Legends scale, ideally with a targetmaster feature of some sort. Brawn, Seaspray, Pipes, Hubcap, those dudes would be great in that size. Maybe a new Backstop while we're at it? And more Decepticons in that size please thanks.
Backstop the rhino? That's a funny idea!

Pipes if he weren't a repaint/remold of Huffer, I'd be sad because then I'd want that mold to be Huffer instead of the Optimus we just got.

We did just get a new Decepticon in that size, Blackjack, and we're getting the Cobra Rattler guy, Viper. I dunno what it is, I saw Blackjack recently and wasn't tempted to get him, maybe it's the simplistic transformation, maybe it's the $10 pricetag, but I suspect it's harder for me to connect to little Decepticons than Autobots. I wouldn't mind them trying more though, I do want Viper despite not really digging the Powerglide original.
More cool-ass Voyagers because I was really enjoying that size class for awhile there. Overlord! Scorponok! Maybe some Dinobots that aren't Grimlock?

And hell I don't know. Dudes like Metalhawk, Snare, Topspin and Twin Twist, those could all be pretty keen.
Ha! Those are some varied tastes. Overlord would be cool in a larger size. I am still somewhat sated by Energon Scorponok, but I suspect I'm in the minority. Your choices are very comics-centric, very Roberts-centric really.

O6 wrote:What's wrong with the existing ones? I have a real problem seeing a better Kup being made. (Disclaimer: Get that third party head. The only problem is now fixed.)
Kup has that head thing, even I was almost swayed into buying that head; and the alt mode isn't Cybertronian, but for me it's just his awkward shoulder area that would be a drawback. That said, I'm not into a new version, I'm content with the existing one just because it's ok enough for my tastes, but I could be swayed by a really killer new figure.

As for Perceptor, I got mine out recently and it's got wonky shoulders in a different way (they don't lock down), that is frustrating, and I miss the alt mode, but same with Kup, it'd have to be a pretty snazzy new figure to get my attention at this point. I wonder what Dom was going for with these 2 as well.
Shockwave needs at least a Voyager to be great; I wouldn't actually mind a Leader class toy of him, but his repaint/remould potential is pretty limited, so a Voyager is more realistic.
So many figures would be better as Voyagers, it's almost like an arms race now - they make one character bigger and all of a sudden everybody else feels too small.
Sky Lynx was never going to happen as long as Archer was in charge (reportedly, he used to keep one on his desk as a reminder of "what not to do.") and it's probably even less likely now that he's gone. Sky Lynx is a toy you cannot make in the modern era. Why? He doesn't turn into a robot. And if you change him to make him turn into a robot, then he isn't Sky Lynx anymore. The best chance you have of getting a new Sky Lynx is in some off-the-wall kid focused line where the toys don't usually transform traditionally in the first place. You could probably get away with it in, say, the RID15 one step toylines.
Sky Lynx is a pretty derpy design, and I'll say it: it's all the shuttlebird's fault, the lynx half looks ok (sculpt only, those colors are needless there), despite being simple so it can be motorized.
. You're absolutely right on Cloud Rodimus, although I think he would work better with a new head.
Its overseas exclusivity makes it too challenging to consider, it's a $20 figure for $80+.
I can't see either of these dudes working at Voyager scale, but that's because I like big-assed toys for big-assed leadery dudes. This is why the Ultra class needs to come back, it was the perfect middle ground between the often too-fucken-big Leaders and the too-small-for-some-dudes Voyagers. Because, to me, Voyagers are like...they're obvious mid-sized dudes. Like, a Deluxe Roadbuster or Whirl or Blaster or Inferno would be too small. (Thunderwing should have been a Voyager. I bet he would work great as a Brainstorm retool now. Hell, so would Metalhawk.) Overlord NEEDS to be at least Ultra-sized, but Leader would be best. (I could see a good remould of Megatron as Overlord.)
Not false. It's a little weird going from $25 Voyager to $45 Leader without anything in between. Maybe they need to drop Voyager and go with Ultra, but only if that came with a larger size and more complexity, none of this "we charge more and shrunk the product" shit.

Prowl wrote:How should it evolve? By arbitrarily deciding a toy that I liked before sucks now just because it crossed some predestined expiration date of coolness? You know the Star Wars movies are over thirty years old at this point, right? They're really starting to show their age!
You are a hypocrite, and it should evolve to recognize that your black-or-white mentality isn't the only possibility out there. You have no problem calling out Ironhide and Ratchet, but give no allowance for anybody else to have any shades of gray in their belief system beyond that, it's your way or fuck you.

And only A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back hold up without effort, Return of the Jedi and all 3 prequels are flawed. I'm not so blind and fearful of change that I can't see that some things work entirely and some things don't hold up, no matter how much 7-year-old me loved ROTJ in theaters.
Cool toys is cool toys, and if I objectively liked it five, ten, or twenty years ago, why the hell would I not like it now?
Nobody is telling you not to like something. I like GoBots and G1 Astrotrain, doesn't mean I'm going to rant at everybody who suggests those aren't the zenith of transforming robot toys and have no room for updating.
I understand that other people have different tastes. Your tastes seem to indicate that you'd prefer to just see the same few characters re-hashed over and over until we get some theoretical 'perfect' version of them monumentalized in plastic, in which case, yeah, GI Joe would probably be more to your habits. Or just stick purely to MP TFs.
Well, it was not nice talking with you, as usual. Enjoy being not only wrong, but entirely incapable of recognizing why you're wrong. Don't for a moment think you've accurately ascribed fuck-all to my beliefs though, you clearly haven't connected even slightly, you have no understanding of anything I do, you are an unreasonable person disconnected from reality. You come off as a zealot espousing the rigid belief system of one as loudly and often as possible without consideration of those around you.
Image
See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
User avatar
Onslaught Six
Supreme-Class
Posts: 7023
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:49 am
Location: In front of my computer.
Contact:

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by Onslaught Six »

So many figures would be better as Voyagers, it's almost like an arms race now - they make one character bigger and all of a sudden everybody else feels too small.
A lot of my personal interpretations of scale go right on back to the G1 toys. G1 Shockwave is as big as Jetfire so they can fight. Jetfire is always a huge guy by default, so Shockwave should be just as big. If Jetfire is a Leader, Shockwave should be too. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, this idea usually pans out the best.
Well, it was not nice talking with you, as usual. Enjoy being not only wrong, but entirely incapable of recognizing why you're wrong. Don't for a moment think you've accurately ascribed fuck-all to my beliefs though, you clearly haven't connected even slightly, you have no understanding of anything I do, you are an unreasonable person disconnected from reality. You come off as a zealot espousing the rigid belief system of one as loudly and often as possible without consideration of those around you.
Man, is it me or are we all gettin' a little too mean to each other here? Or is this just like, "We've known each other so long that we can't possibly piss each other off?"

I would feel a lot better about Prowl's position if I could at least understand why he randomly thinks that just because there's a new (example) Jetfire, the old Jetfire is "invalidated."
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
Image
User avatar
andersonh1
Moderator
Posts: 6332
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by andersonh1 »

Onslaught Six wrote:Man, is it me or are we all gettin' a little too mean to each other here?
I had the same thought. Some of the discussion is getting a little rough these days...
User avatar
JediTricks
Site Admin
Posts: 3851
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: LA, CA, USA

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by JediTricks »

Onslaught Six wrote:A lot of my personal interpretations of scale go right on back to the G1 toys. G1 Shockwave is as big as Jetfire so they can fight. Jetfire is always a huge guy by default, so Shockwave should be just as big. If Jetfire is a Leader, Shockwave should be too. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, this idea usually pans out the best.
Except for sales, which are king to Hasbro. If kids can't afford it, they ain't gonna buy it. So a lot of figures are deluxe because kids can afford more of those. Still, I don't think I'd enjoy Shockwave in LC size, that's pretty big for the character.
Man, is it me or are we all gettin' a little too mean to each other here? Or is this just like, "We've known each other so long that we can't possibly piss each other off?"
It's just Prowl right now for me, it's the same constant argument from him about everything these days, both this issue and his bizarre, misguided "Roberts hates transformation" thing. I pay out of pocket for this site month after month, nobody helps there, nobody but Anderson even invests time in bettering the site in any way, so to have that abused by derailing nearly every discussion with his misguided pet peeves and having him misrepresent others' opinions so thoroughly to fit his viewpoints has become entirely irritating and frustrating.
Image
See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by Dominic »


And see, this is the huge hole in your argument. Nobody ever--not even Hasbro!--said "Hey, this is a REPLACEMENT toy, and the older one is now invalid." The old one is perfectly valid! But maybe some people didn't like it for x reason, like scale, or altmode, or colour scheme, or design or engineering choices. And that's perfectly fine. Let them buy the new one while you enjoy your old one!
This. This exactly.

Prowl, you seem to have a weird persecution complex about new toys of old characters. Hasbro is not telling you to throw your old toys out. They are not telling you that your old figures are shitty. But, over time, it is not unreasonable to expect newer toys to be better. They simply....should be. And, yes, nearly a decade is enough time to make it sensible to expect an upgrade. (Never mind that some fans might not have been around to buy a figure of a main character that came out more than a few years ago.)




I dunno, I watched the cartoon (just the first season, admittedly) and I still don't get it. Of course, I don't 'get' Wheeljack either (flat-out don't understand why he's so popular) so maybe G1 as medium just straight-up isn't my thing.
Stuff like this makes me think that you are deliberately misunderstanding things for the sake of....I dunno.

Wheeljack is the visually distinctive character that got significant screen and page time in cartoons and comics. That pretty much defines what is going to put a character over. What is there to not "get"?

Even a non-fan would get that.

Figure it this way. I do not like "Star Wars". I have not for years. (Been burned one time to many by the brand.) But, I "get" why fans like....say....I dunno....Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a distinctive character that does stuff on screen. Yes, I get having a favourite C or D lister. But, the main characters are still going to be the real favourites. That is not a hard concept to get.


The Minibots are the G1 equivalents. A lot of people may have got Brawn or Gears or Pipes or Beachcomber as their very first Transformer, ever. So they get attached to those characters, for the nostalgic reasons, or because they read the techspec bio 500 times over and know these characters inside and out. That's why. Just think of it like that.
Not quite. Most of the Minibots showed up on the cartoon or in the UK comics. (Hubcap is the only one to not show up anywhere. Outside of some Fun Publications junk and the Dreamwave sourcebook, he has no context.) Yes, there are ciphers like Windcharger (a character I like for exactly the stupid reasons described above).

But, a good many Minibots showed up and did something significant in one or more episodes/issues of the cartoon. Again, main characters tend to be popular because they are main characters. Not sure what is odd about this.



Overlord! Scorponok! Maybe some Dinobots that aren't Grimlock?
Overlord needs to be a Leader class toy to be worth while. But, I would not be against it.



What's wrong with the existing ones? I have a real problem seeing a better Kup being made. (Disclaimer: Get that third party head. The only problem is now fixed.)
I want toys that look more like the comics.

Sky Lynx was never going to happen as long as Archer was in charge (reportedly, he used to keep one on his desk as a reminder of "what not to do.") and it's probably even less likely now that he's gone. Sky Lynx is a toy you cannot make in the modern era. Why? He doesn't turn into a robot.
This is a thread about what we would like, not about what is likely. I want a new Sky Lynx. (I agree that it is not likely.)

Finally, what in the blue hell is wrong with Generations Wheeljack? There is nothing about the IDW Wheeljack that makes him any different from just regular-assed Wheeljack.
The "Generations" figure looks to chubby (like the old toy) to represent IDW Wheeljack.

I'm not saying Beachcomber and Cliff aren't characters too, I'm just saying the market doesn't demand them in the same way - perhaps because Beachcomber is a boring hippie, and Cliff is basically just red Bumblebee.
I do not see BB taking a shot at Megatron the way Cliffjumper did in the first episode. Beachcomber had an episode more or less focused on him.

Doesn't matter, he was fun when he mattered and hasn't had a real toy since then. Why not have him?
I am thinking more "relevant in 2015".

Your choices are very comics-centric, very Roberts-centric really.
Relevance.

Is there an image you can share that shows IDW Wheeljack that would inform how the existing figure doesn't get there? I'm quite curious on this one, for some reason.
Most any image from the IDW run. Wheeljack is generally thinner in the comics.

Man, is it me or are we all gettin' a little too mean to each other here? Or is this just like, "We've known each other so long that we can't possibly piss each other off?"
*shoves Scourge's dick in O6's mouth to silence him....knees O6 in the face from below*
User avatar
JediTricks
Site Admin
Posts: 3851
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: LA, CA, USA

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by JediTricks »

Dominic wrote:The "Generations" figure looks to chubby (like the old toy) to represent IDW Wheeljack.
Ah, ok, that confirms what I said before when I said "aside from his tubbiness...", so it's just that he's not as svelte as the Masterpiece figure which the comics are currently emulating. I dunno that I'd push for a new Wheeljack based solely on that myself, but if a new design came out and looked good, I might be into it.
Image
See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by Dominic »

Yeah, it is the chubbiness. But, it goes back years, and predates the last year's worth of comics.
User avatar
Onslaught Six
Supreme-Class
Posts: 7023
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:49 am
Location: In front of my computer.
Contact:

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by Onslaught Six »

I pay out of pocket for this site month after month, nobody helps there, nobody but Anderson even invests time in bettering the site in any way, so to have that abused by derailing nearly every discussion with his misguided pet peeves and having him misrepresent others' opinions so thoroughly to fit his viewpoints has become entirely irritating and frustrating.
I'll agree that he's got some weird opinions going on right now about the line, but c'mon, let's at least try to be cooler with each other, yeah?

Plus, we've all had the "invest time in bettering the site" discussion ad nausem, haven't we? I mean, I thought most of the goal was to (supposedly) intelligently discuss the current going-ons of TF (and other interests we have, going by the general forum) without any of us having to wade through the degenerate waste of all the rest of the TF fandom (Deathy excluded, apparently). I know we haven't done much in terms of trying to grow it outwardly, but there's a lot of competition now from the larger sites. And don't pull the "I pay for this site" card, you're better than that, and we've all openly volunteered to help pay for hosting time and again if you need it.

I mean, go back to a few years ago, the circa 2012, 2013 discussions (I know I dropped off a bit on posting there, but it was mostly because I was broke and unemployed so I had nothing viable to contribute, but I read it all the time) and look at how much more civil it was.
Dom wrote:But, over time, it is not unreasonable to expect newer toys to be better. They simply....should be. And, yes, nearly a decade is enough time to make it sensible to expect an upgrade. (Never mind that some fans might not have been around to buy a figure of a main character that came out more than a few years ago.)
Well, here's the other thing, just because a newer version of a character is new is absolutely not a guarantee that it is in any way better than the original, and because toy experience is subjective, there's no way to account for taste. Combiner Wars Prime is in no way objectively better than, say, Classics Prime, but I'm sure there's somebody out there who's going to think that the new one is better than the old one. And that's fine. I have no desire to own CW Prime, and that's perfectly fine too.

I don't think the new Jetfire is all that better than Classics Jetfire was, but I also didn't like Classics Jetfire a whole lot after a while.
Wheeljack is the visually distinctive character that got significant screen and page time in cartoons and comics. That pretty much defines what is going to put a character over. What is there to not "get"?
Explain Roman Reigns, then! He's visually distinctive and got a hell of a lot of screen time, and people want him to fucking die.
The "Generations" figure looks to chubby (like the old toy) to represent IDW Wheeljack.
Can you point me to a good reference shot, then? Some googlin' came up with nothing but regular ass pictures of Wheeljack, who is generally a stocky dude in any interpretation. Yes, even the G1 cartoon. (It's his chest being the roof that does it.) I like it, makes him visually distinctive from all the other lean, "athletic" Autobots.
*shoves Scourge's dick in O6's mouth to silence him....knees O6 in the face from below*
The logistics of this are making my brain hurt.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
Image
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by Dominic »

I know we haven't done much in terms of trying to grow it outwardly, but there's a lot of competition now from the larger sites. And don't pull the "I pay for this site" card, you're better than that, and we've all openly volunteered to help pay for hosting time and again if you need it.
It is a fair complaint. He pays for the site and puts in time. He wants to see value for that investment.

And, Prowl does have a persecution complex about this sort of thing.

But, maybe we should take the advice of a voice for our time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0A3Ph4dRrk


I mean, go back to a few years ago, the circa 2012, 2013 discussions (I know I dropped off a bit on posting there, but it was mostly because I was broke and unemployed so I had nothing viable to contribute, but I read it all the time) and look at how much more civil it was.
True that. Sorry about the whole "cock in mouth" thing.

The logistics of this are making my brain hurt.
Imagine what it does to Scourge's groin and my knee!
User avatar
138 Scourge
Supreme-Class
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:27 pm
Location: Beautiful KCK

Re: Hasbro needs to do new versions of G1 characters

Post by 138 Scourge »

JediTricks wrote:
Scourge wrote:I would love a Brawn in the same scale as like Swerve and Tailgate. If he could look as good as thosee two that'd be pretty keen. I think he was rumored to be a thing, but canceled. :(
Swerve really makes it hard not to want mini-vehicles characters that scale, he's such a satisfying figure with so much personality and such good sculpt and paint. I wonder if that rumor was accurate at all.
Couldn't say, but it'd be cool if it was. Swerve and Cosmos are both so damn good that I have 'em displayed with Tailgate right now and I swear they make iffy-ass Tailgate even look better.
Ratchet and Ironhide yes please. I tried to like their Universe toys but yeesh those things are rough.
For me, it was that inability to finish the transformation so that the chest locked down right and the head raised up all the way. Had the engineering not misfired, I at least would have felt like its issues were surmountable, but the fact that it needs significant customizing just to transform the way it was intended breaks it.
Yup. That was super disappointing, too. I really like both characters and was excited to get toys of them in Universe. How the hell do you screw up square vehicles that turn into square robots?
I'm pretty happy with Hound, I thought they pulled him off pretty well. I cant really see what they'd do differently on a new one.
I was picturing something bigger, more squared off, more detailing.
So something more like the Alernator, but Deluxe sized? I could see that being pretty cool.
More old Mini-bots in that Legends scale, ideally with a targetmaster feature of some sort. Brawn, Seaspray, Pipes, Hubcap, those dudes would be great in that size. Maybe a new Backstop while we're at it? And more Decepticons in that size please thanks.
Backstop the rhino? That's a funny idea!
Backstop the muhfugging rhino. Bring back the butt-handed bandit!
Pipes if he weren't a repaint/remold of Huffer, I'd be sad because then I'd want that mold to be Huffer instead of the Optimus we just got.
Probably I would too, but I despite liking Huffer okay I think I like Pipes better. No idea why as the only really memorable Pipes scene was him being stomped to death, but whatever.
We did just get a new Decepticon in that size, Blackjack, and we're getting the Cobra Rattler guy, Viper. I dunno what it is, I saw Blackjack recently and wasn't tempted to get him, maybe it's the simplistic transformation, maybe it's the $10 pricetag, but I suspect it's harder for me to connect to little Decepticons than Autobots. I wouldn't mind them trying more though, I do want Viper despite not really digging the Powerglide original.
Yeah, and Blackjack is actually pretty decent. I feel you on the pricepoint, though. Remember that much cash buying a deluxe? These are crazy times. Still, I feel like there's a few Decepticons left that would make for good Legends toys. The Deluxe Insecticons? Ratbat? Slugfest or Overkill?
More cool-ass Voyagers because I was really enjoying that size class for awhile there. Overlord! Scorponok! Maybe some Dinobots that aren't Grimlock?

And hell I don't know. Dudes like Metalhawk, Snare, Topspin and Twin Twist, those could all be pretty keen.
Ha! Those are some varied tastes. Overlord would be cool in a larger size. I am still somewhat sated by Energon Scorponok, but I suspect I'm in the minority. Your choices are very comics-centric, very Roberts-centric really.
You can tell I just burned through the Humble Bundle, huh? While I'm at it, let's get some DJD toys out, too.
Dominic wrote: too many people likely would have enjoyed it as....well a house-elf gang-bang.
Post Reply