Dark Cybertron

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Dominic
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Dominic »

The annuals establish those guys as important PAST figures, but not particularly weighty upon the present.

As for the Metrotitan thing, I mean Metrotitan the Zone character, an evil Metroplex - it's lazy there and it's lazy here, especially since this is a zombie titan which is double-lazy.
The stuff about the Titans in the annuals (and other previous issues) was clearly setting up for something. This is really no suprise.

Metrotitan the character has never shown up in IDW. In the modern comics, the term "Metrotitan" signifies a class/type of character rather than a specific character. It would be like assuming that "Medic" is Ratchet's name, rather than his rank or function.

I cannot speak to the zombie thing as of yet though.

I'm not new, I know this. It's just the first IDW TF event in a line I've been following and up until now these 2 lines felt far more mature than that crap.
I was thinking about this lately.

"Transformers" was largely immune to this sort of thing (assuming we are looking at a reset based event here).

Both the cartoon and the comics always had a linear story and the changes mostly stuck. After a year, both factions had grown. Within two years, both factions had changed in terms of membership and leadership. (In the comics, Megatron and Optimus only had a few confrontations, even if we count the UK stuff.)

Even allowing for characters coming back (with the old comics assumed was possible from the beginning), the comics never went back to the spec of the first year. Hell, the old Marvel book credibly took place in real time.

Ironically, some of this is due to Hasbro. Hasbro wanted to keep new characters (that represented new product) the focus of the story. That kept the writers from getting lazy and using a static cast. Both TF and "GI Joe" had to combine old and new characters. TF, especially the cartoon, also had siginificant changes to the setting over time.

"Going back" to the way things were did not make creative or commercial sense.

There's no question it's a forced event. Nothing about it has felt organic yet, which is why RID has had to basically stop its story dead in its tracks to set it up. But maybe they'll pull out of the nosedive.
We cannot call it a forced event until it is over. IDW could suprise us. It is only a nosedive if this actually plays out the way we fear. (IDW knows how it will end. They have already planned, if not written, the end of "Dark Cybertron".)

I am hoping that's not the case, both titles were already on interesting paths before this, I'd rather this just be a bump in the road and they get back to interesting ideas with interesting characters in interesting situations. RID was already in a rebuilding phase, now those ideas are getting ready to get flushed for what comes afterwards.
If it were just a question of RiD, I would tell you to be patient. "Dark Cybertron" could easily be fodder for RiD to build on. But, the fact that "More than Meets the Eye" is being so completely derailed (with the characters returning to Cybertron and such) is cause for concern.

Stories should NEVER be read from this perspective. They should be read as stories on their own for their own merits. If this really is how people approach event driven stories then it's a real wonder to me why we still have comics at all and an even bigger wonder why the comic fandom puts up with this continual crap when the oh so important outcome doesn't even stick 90% of the time.
I am not defending it. I am just saying "this is what to look for and expect from an event comic".

Sometimes, an event comic is a good read. I liked "the Siege". It nicely wrapped up "Dark Avengers" and the fights were properly scaled. I just tried to ignore the obvious resets it was preparing readers for. Similarly, "Secret Invasion" had its fun moments.

"Infinite Crisis" was also a fun read, (even if I was not happy with the resulting status quo). On the other hand, "Zero Hour" was very efficient about getting to the point. But, "Zero Hour" read like a shopping list 20 years ago and has not improved with age.

"Crisis on Infinite Earths" is the great-grand-daddy" of all event comics. And, it still holds up better than one might expect, despite being completely irrelevant to anything published in the last 5+ years. It conveyed scale and importance in '85. And, it is possible to see how it did that, even after nearly 30 years.

But, yeah, most events are not relevant for very long after being publshed. And, the high concepts are usually not worth the trouble.

Also, we all knew when Kup went into the DU that he would be coming back at some point, strictly for the reason that he wasn't actually dead.
Actually, "Infestation" strongly implied that Kup was eventually sent back with Britt to the "Zombies v/s Robots" comic. (Somehow, Britt got home with the tech she stole from the TFs. I figured that logically meant Kup went with her. But, I probably should not have tried to make sense out of "Infestation".)

Thrust, Ramjet and Scrapper died on Earth and I didn't see the Decepticons carrying corpses with them when they left.
Scrapper's remains are on Cybertron, as shown in "Chaos". Both Thrust's and Ramjet's remains were in human custody as of the beginning of Costa's run. I am not a fan of back-writing, but it could be assumed that the Decepticons reclaimed both during their raid shown in "Revenge of the Decepticons" or (more credibly) that the Autobots claimed the remains when they left Earth.

The more characters that end up coming back during "Dark Cybertron", the less relevant any deaths during or after "Dark Cybertron" will be.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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JediTricks wrote:
That sort of "assume the cliche" writing is relatively new to TF comics though. And, I would never say it is okay, even though it is common.
Agreed, this IDW line has felt almost immune to it, which has been part of why it's so good to read.
Except it's not been immune at all. They were pulling that sort of cliche back when Furman was writing for the series.
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Onslaught Six »

Excuse any formatting problems--it's hard to edit through larger posts on a phone.

[Quote]My impression is that IDW is trying to tie off an old plot thread through back-writing.
Look at Barber and everything he's done for this franchise--the first time I heard his name was in relation to the Sector Seven books, which basically acted as a way to reconcile all the disparate movie prequel shit that was made with zero intent to line up. Look at Reflector; they pretty much outright gave Turmoil (I think?) a timetravelling spaceship for the express purpose of fixing Reflector.

I am okay with Kup returning, since his expulsion was so half-assed that it was only really there in the first place to justify what a big, bad threat the new crossover enemies were, and it was part of a crossover event that many of us assumed was non-canon. We'll see what they do with him. I've said before that I'm okay with characters occasionally returning, especially if there's been a hunk of time with them gone. Realistically, Kup hasn't been seen on-page since around 2009--that's almost five years, an eternity in comic book time. DC and Marvel are lucky if they can keep someone in the ground for six issues. Also, Roberts and Barber don't usually move a character back into play for nothing, and their story lines are constantly building towards...something, anyway.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Dominic
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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4 or 5 years is functionally a year of comic time, assuming we use Marvel's "real-time:page-time" ratio. If we use the "comic time" standard, few characters stay dead long enough for the time to be worth measuring in years. But, if you meant "by industry standard", then yeah, 5 years is an impressively long time to keep a character off page off page.

Kup is the only return I think could tolerate, simply because he never actually died and "Dark Cybertron" will involve the Dead Universe. (Kup being transported to the "Zombie v/s Robots" world was an assumption I made based on what was implied by "Infestation". Of course, the second issue of "Infestation" also said that 5 universes were in immediate danger, which contradicted at least 3 of the cross-over.)


But, anything beyond Kup returning will arguably be a use of the Marvel model for events, where an event undoes the big changes from the last event. ("Secret Invasion" involved huge amounts of back-writing. At least one dead character was back-written to have survived by virtue of having been replaced by a skrull who died in her place. And, "Secret Invasion" partly undid some of the changes from "Civil War", which was functionally undone in total by "Dark Reign".)
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Dominic »

I flipped through this week's "Robots in Disguise" #23.
Spoiler
It looks like Metalhawk is back.
Barber may have been planning this from the
Spoiler
point he killed Metalhawk in the first place.
So, this, much like our (more idle) speculation about Thundercracker will be a question of "wait and see". But, yeah, things are looking ominous for me dropping this book at some point next year.


Dom
-now to talk about "Re-Generation One", which I do not plan to be reading by spring of next year.
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andersonh1
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by andersonh1 »

This week, at least, I'm going to go with Dom's suggestion and discuss an issue here, since MTMTE 23 doesn't feel like that series at all. The issue is a lot of scenes that never really gel into a plot, though since it's chapter 2 of a much longer story and clearly advertised as such, that's fine. The constantly shifting artwork can be off-putting, especially when going from Raiz's very detailed style to the simplistic style of whoever drew the pages for Starscream and Scoop.

So, we've got:
- Shockwave (apparently) serving Nova Prime and Galvatron. Still seems unlikely to me, but time will tell.
- Nightbeat alive (or at least functioning) in the Dead Universe.
- What's the problem with Cyclonus?
- Not a big fan of Starscream adopting Armada Starscream's look. I get that this is cross-promotion with the Universe figure though.
- Ultra Minimus talks differently now. His "voice" has changed, and I don't think it's just my perception of the character that's causing me to say that.
- Brainstorm's solution to survival in the Dead Universe (essentially camoflage) is fun and creative, and it's amusing that it doesn't really work, or at the least, causes as much trouble as it prevents.

Got to read chapter 3 and get caught up. Or not, I think chapter 4 was out yesterday. Probably won't get it until next week though.
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Sparky Prime »

andersonh1 wrote:- Ultra Minimus talks differently now. His "voice" has changed, and I don't think it's just my perception of the character that's causing me to say that.
Well he is no longer the Duly Appointed Enforcer of the Tyrest Accord, which was the whole point of him being Ultra Magnus. And his secret is out. Understandably, he seems to be having a hard time adjusting.
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Tigermegatron »

andersonh1 wrote: - Not a big fan of Starscream adopting Armada Starscream's look. I get that this is cross-promotion with the Universe figure though.
I'm not a fan of this either.
andersonh1 wrote: - Ultra Minimus talks differently now. His "voice" has changed, and I don't think it's just my perception of the character that's causing me to say that.
I suspect/predict the oroginal/real Ultra Magnus will make his grand return at some point. get upset about minius stealing his identity & then fighting him.
andersonh1 wrote: - Brainstorm's solution to survival in the Dead Universe (essentially camoflage) is fun and creative, and it's amusing that it doesn't really work, or at the least, causes as much trouble as it prevents.
I would have preferred instead the writers revisited the the "pretender" tech to try to survive for a short term in the dead universe. I liked how the writers used the pretender tech years ago.
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Sparky Prime »

Tigermegatron wrote:I would have preferred instead the writers revisited the the "pretender" tech to try to survive for a short term in the dead universe. I liked how the writers used the pretender tech years ago.
I would have liked to see them revisit the Predender tech as well. Brainstorm mentioned it, although he had a different name for it. He said that he'd need his old workshop and six months to create "polydermal armor" for them. At any rate, the cybertwrath venom was basically just a quick solution he could come up with given his resources on the Lost Light.
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by andersonh1 »

Dark Cybertron chapter 5
I'm not sure I paid all that much attention to which book this actually was. :P

The story continues as a sort of continuity clean-up, with Cyclonus' time in the Dead Universe referenced (and it's not looking good for him either, at the moment). The twist with Nightbeat is unfortunate, but makes for a good cliffhanger ending. I'm wondering what Megatron's part in the story will be. Shockwave used him to get Nova Prime and Galvatron out of the Dead Universe, but then he shows up at the end of the issue having escaped.

So how's the story progressing? It's still forming, honestly. A lot has happened, but there are so many plot threads and so many characters involved that it's hard to say what's really going on here. I'm not sure decompressed is the word I'd use to describe it. It's just taking a long time to check in on every character and what's happening to them every issue. I like the story, but it's not keeping me on the edge of my seat by any means.
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