Dark Cybertron

The IDW Comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's now significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade.
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JediTricks
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by JediTricks »

Sparky Prime wrote:
JediTricks wrote:Well, the former made no sense and was just doublespeak for "destroy everything ever!"
The plan was to collapse the universe to a singularity to use as a power source for Cybertron. It wasn't doublespeak for "destroy everything ever", as long as you don't mind Cybertron being the only thing in existence. And in that regard, his plan did make sense. It would ensure Cybertron remained powered forever.
To what end, for what goal? He was going to kill everybody on Cybertron, so what was his goal? Kill everything ever except one lightbulb nobody would even need, essentially.
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?

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Sparky Prime
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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JediTricks wrote:To what end, for what goal? He was going to kill everybody on Cybertron, so what was his goal? Kill everything ever except one lightbulb nobody would even need, essentially.
Where was it said Shockwave was planning on killing everybody on Cybertron? His goal would have ensured the preservation of the planet. That really was all he was concerned with, but presumably anyone left alive that supported his cause or submitted to it once his plan was complete would have been kept around. Not to mention given his background as a scientist and newfound power, I think he could have found a way to repopulate if he wanted to. Or maybe Cybertron itself would begin generating new hot spots. In any event, Cybertron and at least some of its inhabitants would still be around.

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Dominic
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Re: Dark Cybertron

Post by Dominic »

I think there was a line in "Dark Cybertron" part 12 (spoken to Jhiaxus) about how Shockwave's plan was not going to be good for anyone.

Of course, the obvious answer to JT's comment is the same:
Shockwave decided he was going to do something, and dammit, he was going to follow through. Shockwave was kind of a jerk.

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Sparky Prime
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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Dominic wrote:I think there was a line in "Dark Cybertron" part 12 (spoken to Jhiaxus) about how Shockwave's plan was not going to be good for anyone.
Well I don't think most would see collapsing the universe to power a single planet as a good thing... But that still doesn't mean Shockwave was going to kill everyone on Cybertron. Besides, I don't think anyone knew the full plan until I think it was part 11 when Shockwave revealed his plan to use the Dead Universe to power himself and their own universe to power Cybertron, seeing as even Jhiaxus believed the Dead Universe energies would be powering Cybertron.

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JediTricks
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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Issue 11, Shockwave has just shot Bumblebee...

Megatron: He's DEAD!

Shockwave: "Dead"? Make the MOST of such concepts - they won't EXIST for much longer.


Then there's the whole "drop all the Ammonites on everybody and kill them" part of Shockwave's plan, that might have suggested it as well. Or the "send the Necrotitan to kill everybody" part. Or the "send Monstructor to kill everybody" part.


There's also this little nugget;

Issue 12, Shockwave and Megatron battle and duel philosophically...

Shockwave: All life IS equal. I merely assign it a QUANTIFIABLE VALUE - zero.
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See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?

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Sparky Prime
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Re: Dark Cybertron

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JediTricks wrote:Issue 11, Shockwave has just shot Bumblebee...

Megatron: He's DEAD!

Shockwave: "Dead"? Make the MOST of such concepts - they won't EXIST for much longer.
That still doesn't mean Shockwave was planning on killing everyone on the planet. Shockwave's plan involved more than just collapsing the universe around Cybertron...

Chapter 10:
Shockwave: "I do not seek to change anything. I shall remove the very concept of 'change'—of 'past' and 'future'—from the very physics of this universe. All of space and of time shall exist as a single point, an ultimate singularity—an ultimate black hole. Here—on Cybertron. And this world will consume all the resources of the universe in one never-ending moment—the only space and the only moment that has ever or will ever exist. Cybertron will feed on the universe forever, and the very concepts of 'forever' and 'the universe' shall exist only to feed Cybertron. All of the universe, all of history—shall collapse into me. A single point of light against the infinite darkness."

With Shockwave about to eliminate time from the "physics of this universe", nothing would change and concepts like death wouldn't exist anymore. That's all he's saying to Megatron there.
Then there's the whole "drop all the Ammonites on everybody and kill them" part of Shockwave's plan, that might have suggested it as well. Or the "send the Necrotitan to kill everybody" part. Or the "send Monstructor to kill everybody" part.
Seeing as all it took to stop all of the Ammonites (all at once I might add) was as simple as unbalancing the Ore's, I doubt Shockwave thought they would kill everyone, despite their numbers. Not to mention, Monstructor was sent in after they'd been defeated, indicating he was somewhat of a backup plan, so sooner or later Shockwave must have expected them to fail. And Monstructor had been defeated on a couple occasions before without any casualties, so he was hardly that big of a threat himself. Necrotitan was a legitimate threat to everyone, but then Shockwave still needed the Ore Metroplex had in his thumb for his plan. That being the case, I doubt he was really intended to kill everyone either, rather was more of a way to lure Metroplex back to Cybertron. Really, all of these opponents seemed like nothing more than a big distraction so Shockwave could implement his true plans, not an actual attempt to kill everybody.
There's also this little nugget;

Issue 12, Shockwave and Megatron battle and duel philosophically...

Shockwave: All life IS equal. I merely assign it a QUANTIFIABLE VALUE - zero.
And all that means is that Shockwave doesn't see any importance to life. He wouldn't care if they lived or died, but it's not an indication that he was planning on killing everyone.

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Re: Dark Cybertron

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I was home sick from work yesterday and decided to re-read this to see if it improved at all, since I had some time on my hands. Sometimes time and distance from the initial reading will give me a different perspective. But the plot still boils down to "Shockwave plans to kill the universe with magic rocks". There are a few good moments here and there, but even read all together, this story really meanders and drags. The pacing remains terrible.

And I still don't quite get why Shockwave didn't just travel around and collect his samples quietly. If he hadn't attacked Cybertron with the Necrotitan, no one would have had a clue what he was up to until it was too late to stop him. Unless I missed some explanation somewhere (which would be easy to do as jumbled as the art and layouts are), it seems like we've got giant event storytelling just for the sake of it.

Anyone have any thoughts on Dark Cybertron after we've had time to live with the resulting status quo for most of this year? Was it worth it, regardless of the quality of the story itself? Or was it just that bump in the road that JT hoped it would be? To me, it seems like MTMTE just picked up where it left off, albeit with Autobot Megatron as the central character and plotlines that result from that. Dark Cybertron effectively serves as the final chapter of RID as far as the original concept of the book is concerned. They may as well have changed the name of the series from the first chapter of the Dawn of the Autobots storyline, because that book became something completely different, something I've only recently warmed up to.

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Re: Dark Cybertron

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It's interesting how much more forgiving I am years down the road, re-reading this same material. This thread is a time capsule for how we all viewed the storyline at the time of publication, and it's often not very positive. I read four or five chapters last night, and honestly enjoyed a lot of what I read. Divorced from being an interruption to the ongoing storylines and in the absence of waiting weeks in between chapters, the first half of Dark Cybertron is not a bad story when the issues are read back to back. The plot uses story elements from Furman's work and from the more recent material in RID and MTMTE, which helps the IDW Transformers patchwork of writers and series feel more cohesive (no doubt that was the writers' intent) when so much of what came before is important to the plot, as it is here. My complaints about so many of the middle chapters lacking resolution are valid on an issue by issue basis, but in collected format the story works far better. It may just be that sometimes monthly comics are just not well-suited to telling a long-format story, as evidenced by the debate over the pacing of the current Transformers series.

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Re: Dark Cybertron

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"Dark Cybertron" was an event that served to move characters around for the next editorial phase of the series.

Expecting any event to be resolved in a single issue is unreasonable.

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