Comics are Awesome II

[andersonh1]

Since the old thread has hit 100 pages, time to start a new one. The last page of the old thread can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=631&start=990

[andersonh1]

And since he just posted, here are Gomess' comments to kick things off.

The Stardroids are Robot Masters created by Dr. Wily though... Their designs were just based on a robot Wily found called Sunstar.

Ahh, you know what I mean. They're not Wily Numbers, so they're not Super Robots. Admittedly though, the Stardroids certainly could've been the bosses that Ursus missed from the Game Boy games, so the point is rather moot. And, y'know, pedantry.

...That said, Wily revived the Space Rulers / Stardroids. He didn't create them.

[Gomess]

Much obliged, Missssster Anderson. B]

And everyone, feel free to not continue arguing Rock Man canon with me. I WILL STAIN MAH HANDS WIV YO BLOOOD

...also i hate the idea of derailing a new thread right from the start =[

[andersonh1]

Well, the first week of DC's new desperation ploy is upon us.

Flashpoint #5
I can't escape the feeling that this book was originally going to be nothing more than the next arc in the ongoing Flash monthly, particularly since issue 13 of that book had been solicited at one point. It just doesn't feel as epic as it probably should. But if you want someone to blame for the new status quo (in the fictional DC universe anyway), blame

Spoiler

Barry Allen. He caused Flashpoint by trying to change history and save his mother from being murdered by the reverse-Flash, and then when he tries to restore the timeline (somehow), he ends up listening to some mysterious hooded individual and merging three different timelines. No, I didn't make that up. Allen's imperfect memory gives us Superman's ugly new costume, among other things

. I guess Barry always wanted a chinstrap.

Overall: What would have made a decent alternate universe arc in a monthly series makes for a less-than satisfying event that lets DC editorial tinker with 70+ years of continuity and cherry pick what they like or don't like. I'm pretty cynical about the results, honestly. Time will tell.


Justice League #1
Ok, there's no way this book could ever live up to the hype. I'll give DC this: they finally seemed to have realized that if they want this flagship book to succeed it needs to dump the second stringers and go all out with the top tier characters and creators. And whatever you think of Geoff Johns and Jim Lee (and I like both), there's no doubt they've made the attempt.

The main problem with this book is that it's nothing we haven't seen before. The plot only just kicks into gear over the course of the issue, but it's clear where it's going. Big bad (

Spoiler

in this case, Darkseid

) is a major threat, which all the heroes must band together to combat since they can't do it alone. It's a tired plot. It makes sense, but it's nothing new. Neither is the choice of villain, for that matter. If this is the "New 52", why not go for something NEW? Maybe it's just me.

That aside, it's a reasonable pretext for assembling all of DC's big guns (and Cyborg). The bulk of the book features Batman and Hal Jordan, who is written here as cocky and overconfident to the point of stupidity. Reminds me of early Kyle Rayner, and that's not good. Batman is who he always is, which makes him the comfortably familiar character in this new continuity. The two argue and banter and go find Superman for no other reason than an alien was planting devices around Gotham, and Superman's an alien, so maybe he's involved. Please.

And have I mentioned that I really hate the new Superman outfit? Jim Lee mentions in his notes that the first thing to go was the "red underwear", but the lines are still there in his design, they're just colored blue. And if you want to see how bad the redesigns could have been, take a look at the sketches in the back of the book. HIs redesign mandate seems to have been "take every outfit and add 20 layers of useless detail to it".

The DC universe has become a bit more like Marvel, where super-powered individuals are feared and mistrusted, though Batman likes it that way. I suspect that Superman will be the one to overcome that, given what we've read about his character arc, but it hasn't happened yet.

I'm being very negative here, but the book isn't bad so much as it is mediocre. And it's mediocre because the plot is nothing new. If this was genuinely the first time we'd read this story instead of DC declaring this the new first time these guys all met, it might be more impressive. The art's great though. And I do like the more modern take on the logo. They aren't going for "regal and high and noble" any more. Somebody's figured out how to put perspective on their letters in Illustrator.

Overall: Worth buying, but it's not as original or good as they'd like you to believe. But as always with this mix of DC's big characters, there's plenty of dramatic potential if they can realize it.

[Sparky Prime]

They're not Wily Numbers, so they're not Super Robots.

What about other Robot Masters who don't actually have Wily's Numbers? Mega Man 1 (along with Time Man and Oil Man counting Powered Up) and Mega Man 9 were actually Dr. Light's robots. Mega Man 3 has a different numbering system since they were built by Dr. Light and Wily together. Mega Man 4 were the creations of Dr. Cossack. Mega Man 6, although they had Wily numbers, were actually the creations of people from 8 different countries....

...That said, Wily revived the Space Rulers / Stardroids. He didn't create them.

Come to think of it, aside the Wily calling Sunstar an 'ancient weapon', the origins of the Stardroids is never really explained.

[Gomess]

What about other Robot Masters who don't actually have Wily's Numbers? Mega Man 1 (along with Time Man and Oil Man counting Powered Up) and Mega Man 9 were actually Dr. Light's robots. Mega Man 3 has a different numbering system since they were built by Dr. Light and Wily together. Mega Man 4 were the creations of Dr. Cossack. Mega Man 6, although they had Wily numbers, were actually the creations of people from 8 different countries....

Ok, don't get all Tigermegatron on me, I believe you know your stuff. ;p But no, I take what Capcom give me; the Space Rulers have no Wily Numbers, so they're not Super Robots. Officially speaking, that term is used solely for DW and DR numbers. We're just arguing semantics now, really.

the origins of the Stardroids is never really explained.

Japanese manual says differently:

彼らはスペースルーラーズという地球外文明製のロボットで、ワイリーが発見し、復活させた。<They are robots created by a civilisation known as the Space Rulers, found and revived by Wily.>

Of course, Street Fighter fans choose to think Zangief isn't gay, so what does "canon" mean, really?

[138 Scourge]

Well, the first week of DC's new desperation ploy is upon us.

That's an optimistic beginning. So in honor of that, we've rebooted the thread? Man, and here I am without my ridiculous high collar.

And have I mentioned that I really hate the new Superman outfit? Jim Lee mentions in his notes that the first thing to go was the "red underwear", but the lines are still there in his design, they're just colored blue. And if you want to see how bad the redesigns could have been, take a look at the sketches in the back of the book. HIs redesign mandate seems to have been "take every outfit and add 20 layers of useless detail to it".

I shudder to think of what those rejects must have looked like, if what they're using was pick of the litter.

I dunno, I'm certainly no fan of Jim Lee's art, and especially not his design sense, so I'm totally biased, but I figure if the red shorts were good enough for better artists than Lee for the past eighty years, there's probably not that much wrong with 'em. But yeah, Jim, that's why people aren't buying as many comics these days, Superman wasn't wearing armor and he had fuckin' shorts.

[Sparky Prime]

Ok, don't get all Tigermegatron on me, I believe you know your stuff. ;p But no, I take what Capcom give me; the Space Rulers have no Wily Numbers, so they're not Super Robots. Officially speaking, that term is used solely for DW and DR numbers. We're just arguing semantics now, really.

Did I say something totally in contradiction with something I said earlier? Anyway, the term is applied to any of the 8 (give or take) boss robots working for Wily, regardless of who originally built them or their number. So the Stardroids would still be considered Robot Masters.

Japanese manual says differently:

I wouldn't go by what the game manuals say personally. The original Super Mario Bros. manual for an example says something about how the citizens of Mushroom Kingdom were transformed into bricks. The ones that Mario smashes looking for power-ups...

And have I mentioned that I really hate the new Superman outfit?

I'm curious, have you seen the new pictures of the Superman costume for the upcoming "Superman: Man of Steel" movie? It's somewhat similar to the new comic look.

[andersonh1]

And have I mentioned that I really hate the new Superman outfit?

I'm curious, have you seen the new pictures of the Superman costume for the upcoming "Superman: Man of Steel" movie? It's somewhat similar to the new comic look.

Yeah, and it looks even worse in live-action. Is it just me, or is removing the red shorts and adding lots of panel lines to compensate just an arbitrary decision? As if blue tights, red boots and a red cape aren't just as silly in the real world? As Scourge says, the previous outfit has been more than suitable for 70 something years now, with slight variations. DC has ruined a classic look, and it's amazing how little they had to change to do that.

I was a little harsh on Justice League #1. It's probably a great book for a new reader who isn't familiar with DC history or the league. It's just that if you've been reading awhile, many of the story beats will be very familiar.

[Onslaught Six]

Ok, don't get all Tigermegatron on me, I believe you know your stuff. ;p But no, I take what Capcom give me; the Space Rulers have no Wily Numbers, so they're not Super Robots. Officially speaking, that term is used solely for DW and DR numbers. We're just arguing semantics now, really.

Did I say something totally in contradiction with something I said earlier? Anyway, the term is applied to any of the 8 (give or take) boss robots working for Wily, regardless of who originally built them or their number. So the Stardroids would still be considered Robot Masters.

Are we really having this argument?

A Robot Master is a boss. That's really it. The rest is all semantics. For me, "Robot Master" is interchangable with "Boss you can choose from a select screen" in Mega Man games. Just like every boss in a MMX game is a Maverick.

Also, all the Robot Masters from Rockman & Forte all have KGN numbers because they're King's robots, not Wily's or Light's. Do they not count as well?

Anyway, I'm interested to see where this MM comic would eventually go with the MMV bosses.

Japanese manual says differently:

I wouldn't go by what the game manuals say personally. The original Super Mario Bros. manual for an example says something about how the citizens of Mushroom Kingdom were transformed into bricks. The ones that Mario smashes looking for power-ups...

And that's entirely true.