IDW in trouble - How Can the Comic book industry be saved?

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Dominic
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IDW in trouble - How Can the Comic book industry be saved?

Post by Dominic »

A combination of observable signals intelligence and rumor inspired me to look up IDW. A quick search on Google reveals that IDW may, in fact, be in some trouble.

The guy who runs the local comic shop told me that he has noticed IDW in general has been "off". Comics are shipping, even being solicited, later than they should. (Foe example, the compilation that I have been looking for should have been shipped last fall, but was resolicited. Similarly, the 4th issue of "Galaxies" (slated to be in the second compilation) is several months late.


And, there is all of this:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2018/09/ ... rter-loss/
q3 of 2018 was better than q3 of 2017, if only in relative terms. (And, some of that loss was comics-specific.)


https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by- ... -sale.html
This one is from about a year ago.



https://d-rezzed.clownfishtv.com/idw-pu ... k-company/
By the middle of last year, it was (apparently) "no secret" that IDW was in trouble. 3.7 million in losses, with 1.6 of that being on the side that publishes the comics.
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Shockwave
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by Shockwave »

Wow. That's honestly not surprising, although the comic shop I go to is apparently doing so well that the owner can now afford employees (something he wasn't doing even a couple of years ago). There are genuine problems with the comic book industry, not the least of which is Diamond having a monopoly on the distribution. That isn't doing anyone any favors. Also, the constant continuity and reboots and back writes and convoluted story telling is very off putting to people who aren't already into comics. My fiance likes Wonder Woman. Last year we bought her the Silver Age volume one. Neither one of us has managed to read the whole thing. In hindsight, that might not have been the best starting point with Wonder Woman as a lot of that is a lot of narrative boxes and fairly light on action. It doesn't make for an easy read and I doubt it's inspired my fiance to read any more comics. And speaking for myself, who's someone that actually has read some comics, even I've found the prospect daunting. I mean, I like Thor. But where do you start with Thor if there's literally decades of stories involving Thor? It can make your head explode even thinking about it. And yeah, the movies are generally doing great, but if the same people watching the movies go into a comic shop, assuming they can find one, they're likely to have that same "Oh shit, look how much there is, I ain't readin' all of that" reaction.
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by andersonh1 »

I don't mind decades of continuity if it's all one linear series so I know that issue 450 takes place later in the hero's life than issue 72, or some such thing. It's these multiple restarts and then convoluted storytelling to explain how characters who used to work but can't work under the new scenario somehow still fit, and then a few years later things restart again. The companies need to quit trying to find starting points and just tell accessible stories.

I'd never read a single Thor issue, but I got the gist of the character fairly quickly in that Thor omnibus I bought, and enjoyed the adventures. All comics should be that easy to pick up and hit the ground running. Decades of backstory are not a problem if the basics of the character are easily explained and we just head into the character having adventures. But very few writers write that way, it seems.
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Re: IDW comic sales

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And there's also company mandates with both Marvel and DC trying to make things work, like you said. I think a lot of writers get cut off at the knees by that. I think rather than keep everything going they both should just start from 0 and go forward with everything.

I got into Thor with the Thor: Disassembled book and it was really good. I also really like Beta Rey Bill. They really need to fit him into the MCU somehow.
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Re: IDW comic sales

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Shockwave wrote:I think rather than keep everything going they both should just start from 0 and go forward with everything.
Wasn't that basically what DC was going for with the New 52 reboot? Not that they handled it very well...

Personally, I like the idea of keeping things going. Like when Barry died, and we got to see Wally become Flash in his place, eventually grow up and have kids of his own.... But for that to work, they need to actually keep the story going, rather than restart things every couple of years (which they seem to be doing in shorter and shorter intervals...), bringing back dead characters and then finding themselves not knowing what to do with the characters that had replaced them.
I also really like Beta Rey Bill. They really need to fit him into the MCU somehow.
A statue of his face was on Sakaar in Thor Ragnarok. Apparently, he was supposed to get a cameo in that film as well, but it was cut.

Who knows, maybe they will find a place for him in the next Thor film?
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by Shockwave »

Nah. The comic book industry needs to do two things if they want to survive: 1: Etcha-sketch everything and start everything from 0 so that everyone can jump in. B: sell comic everywhere. There was a time that you could go anywhere that would sell magazines and be able to buy comics. That's not the case anymore. To buy comics now, you either have to go to some Ma and Pop comic shop or order it online. Not many people are going to do that. Comics would do way better if they had more accessibility. Then, the movies can act as commercials for the comics and new fans can jump on and not feel overwhelmed by over 100+ years of comic book history.
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Re: IDW comic sales

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Shockwave wrote:Nah. The comic book industry needs to do two things if they want to survive: 1: Etcha-sketch everything and start everything from 0 so that everyone can jump in. B: sell comic everywhere. There was a time that you could go anywhere that would sell magazines and be able to buy comics. That's not the case anymore. To buy comics now, you either have to go to some Ma and Pop comic shop or order it online. Not many people are going to do that. Comics would do way better if they had more accessibility. Then, the movies can act as commercials for the comics and new fans can jump on and not feel overwhelmed by over 100+ years of comic book history.
The question there is would they gain enough new readers to make up for losing fans who are attached to existing ones. Could they regress Dick Grayson to being a teenage Robin, for example, losing Jason Todd, Tim Drake and Damien Wayne in the process? I'm not sure that's really an option either. Seems like a status quo that somewhat resembles what the general public expects with these characters is the way to go, and then tell stories without constant reboots and replacements. Give people what they expect when they open a Batman or a Flash comic, and make the stories appealing.
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by Sparky Prime »

I think erasing everything and starting over again would cause more problems than it'd solve in the long run. Sure, it'd give readers a new jumping on point, and you wouldn't have to worry about all that history behind the characters... But again, that's essentially what DC was going for with the New 52. And while their sales saw a pretty big boost in the short term, I think the fact they killed off the New 52 Superman, and brought back the pre-Flashpoint Superman, speaks to how well that was going for them in the long run.
andersonh1 wrote:Could they regress Dick Grayson to being a teenage Robin, for example, losing Jason Todd, Tim Drake and Damien Wayne in the process? I'm not sure that's really an option either. Seems like a status quo that somewhat resembles what the general public expects with these characters is the way to go, and then tell stories without constant reboots and replacements. Give people what they expect when they open a Batman or a Flash comic, and make the stories appealing.
Exactly. That'd be a good way to alienate your readers, to remove characters they enjoy. Look no further than the reactions to Wally West being removed from continuity with the New 52. Can you imagine if you were a fan of Damian Wayne for an example, and had to wait say... 10+ years for him to be (re)introduced after they started all over? Those fans aren't going to stick around for that...
Shockwave wrote:To buy comics now, you either have to go to some Ma and Pop comic shop or order it online. Not many people are going to do that. Comics would do way better if they had more accessibility. Then, the movies can act as commercials for the comics and new fans can jump on and not feel overwhelmed by over 100+ years of comic book history.
I'd agree comics could do with more accessibility, however, I still see comics in the magazine section of Barnes and Noble and other such stores (not to mention, books stores tend to have a decent graphic novel section). And there's actually a couple used book stores near me that are great for finding new and used comics alike. One of them actually has a pretty big selection of comics, it's almost like a comic book store within a used book store. There are also apps and websites like Comixology or Kindle that allow you to buy/read comics digitally. So, I mean, it's not like there are only two options for buying comics...
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by Dominic »

My fiance likes Wonder Woman. Last year we bought her the Silver Age volume one. Neither one of us has managed to read the whole thing. In hindsight, that might not have been the best starting point with Wonder Woman as a lot of that is a lot of narrative boxes and fairly light on action. It doesn't make for an easy read and I doubt it's inspired my fiance to read any more comics. And speaking for myself, who's someone that actually has read some comics, even I've found the prospect daunting. I mean, I like Thor. But where do you start with Thor if there's literally decades of stories involving Thor??
Same place you would start with any comic, with the beginning of a run (generally with a new creative team or direction). For the last 20 years, comics have been structured so that readers do not need decades of backstory to read any given run. Not sure why some people have a hard time with that.

Silver Age comics are not meant to be read in bulk.

Decades of backstory are not a problem if the basics of the character are easily explained and we just head into the character having adventures. But very few writers write that way, it seems.
Part of the problem is also fans that obsess over minutia and cannot summarize a series because they are hyper-focused on stupid/irrelevant details.

I think a lot of writers get cut off at the knees by that. I think rather than keep everything going they both should just start from 0 and go forward with everything.
After the 80s (and early 90s), both Marvel and DC have been averse to letting any creative team stay with any series for too long. Think back to the founding of Image Comics? That was a disaster for Marvel more than DC. But, DC still took the lesson. Both companies want to keep the characters from "belonging to" any specific creators.

1: Etcha-sketch everything and start everything from 0 so that everyone can jump in. B: sell comic everywhere.
With point 1, the industry needs to be decisive one way or the other. Either they have a linear story, or they do frequent resets. One of the other. If a comic spends any amount of time shifting characters around to make them "the way they were", and functionally removing the effects of previous issues, then they may as well do a hard reboot. (Marvel's "Iron Man 2020" is largely about undoing Bendis' run. Marvel is going to piss away a year's worth of comics to undo a previous run. That is a waste of their time and ours.)

If they opt for a hard reboot, it needs to be a decisive reboot that does not rely on anything but the most generalized impressions from old comics.

A possible option would be to have different imprints. One imprint could assume a linear story. Another could assume some kind of stasis quo. Marvel is trying this with their "Gamerverse" and "Marvel Adventures" sub-lines. But, I am not sure of the exact sales numbers for either.


As for point 2, the market is what it is. How many places are going to sell comics in any appreciable quantity? DC is trying with Wal-Mart. But, how many people are going to regularly buy their comics at Wal-Mart? (Even if you can reliably find them, what sort of condition are they likely to be in?) Accessibility is important. But, it cannot be artificially forced.


But, my main point with the above post was to ask if IDW is in more trouble than the industry as a whole, and if that would explain stuff like the ever-shifting art on the main "Transformers" series, "Galaxies" being several months behind schedule and the first compilation being re-solicited and not being shipped to metro Boston. (I have checked several comic-stores, to no avail.)
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Re: IDW comic sales

Post by Shockwave »

IDW might be in more trouble than the industry as a whole, but the industry is not doing it any favors. I don't think industry problems explains their failures in getting content produced.

As for the industry, yeah, I hear this answer all the time: "Start where ever you want". Here's the problem with that: Most people don't do that for most other mediums. Movie fans usually start a series of movies at the beginning, get a linear story that goes to a linear end. Same with TV and even video games to some extent. Books also tend to have a very linear format. So to tell people who expect to follow a character in a story from beginning to end that they should just start where ever they want is ridiculous. Most people are going to look at that, see 100+ years of convoluted bullshit and decide it's both time and cost prohibitive and not worth the effort. I'm going to start referring to this as the Dr. Who paradox. A little over ten years ago, a friend of mine started me watching Dr. Who. We started with Eccleston, the 9th Dr. I commented that I would want to go back and watch it from the beginning and that over 40+ years worth of Dr. Who was going to be time and cost prohibitive. He then commented that since it's time travel, there really isn't a linear story anyway so it wouldn't matter. My counter to that was that even if it's not temporally linear, the character would have a progression arch that would be and I would be missing out on that beginning. Now, I wound up giving it a chance and have generally enjoyed most of what I've seen and didn't really wind up feeling like I was missing out, but my initial reaction is the same that I have also had to non TF comics and I feel like most people have that same reaction and aren't going to pull the trigger and stick with it.

And the replies in this thread were 100% anticipated. I mean no offense to anyone here, but I am going to call out the problems that I see. It's the same problem that I run into in the various Masonic organizations that I belong to: "But that's how we've always done it." That's not a good thing. Yes, some things would get wiped out, but if you get good writing and good stories, that should be the focus, not flipping a table just because Robin has an alter ego that isn't the one you prefer. Yes, there are going to be some people that like Tim Drake or Damian Wayne more than Dick Greyson, but I would hope said people would be more excited about better quality stories and an industry that's going to survive and keep going over keeping things so insular to the fandom. Like Dom said, quibbling over trivial minutia is pointless if it leads to the demise of the medium itself. I remember a time when a Star Trek reboot would have been unthinkable because the fans would have hated it, but here we are, years later and it happened. And yes, there were some fans that hated it, but I think it's done more good for Star Trek than keeping everything for the fans. The real issue here is that, eventually existing fandom is going to die off and without new fans and readers coming in to support it, the medium won't survive. I'm seeing that first hand in Freemasonry. The membership is mostly older members who have been doing things the same way forever and not willing to change in order to bring in new people who will keep it going. Keeping the existing fandom happy is not going to keep the hobby going.
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