December Hauls

A general discussion forum, plus hauls and silly games.
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Dominic
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Re: December Hauls

Post by Dominic »

o I bought the TIE Pilot to act as a control unit to Kylo; we all like to complain about Hasbro's 5POA figure revolution or whatever, but I wanted to buy one to be like, I bought one so I know if I'll hate it. And...I don't hate it??

It depends on the character.

Stormtroopers need at least 10 points of articulation (and that is minimum). Stormtroopers should have enough articulation to be posed as if they are shooting, running or standing at attention. That is not negotiable. (A similar principle applies to Cobra Troopers.)

Pilots can get away with 5 points of articulation. But, they still look better if they can be posed as if they are operating specific control surfaces of their vehicle.

Kylo Ren, and similar characters, should have 15+ points of articulation.

And is $8-$10 really that cost prohibitive? I mean, even I could have afforded that back in the 80s.
Hasbro would argue that people are trying to save money. And, (obviously) Hasbro is trying to cut costs for themselves. Every point of articulation is at least two moving parts. Those parts require individual tooling. Hasbro could probably do it. But, why should they? They know that people will buy junk, so they will sell it.
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Re: December Hauls

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Hasbro probably would say that, but smaller parts use less plastic and ultimately, less material. And, I can't help thinking that essentially maintaining two lines (the "cheap" one and the Black series) costs more than if they just released a few more figures in the Black series to begin with. I mean, I get what you're saying but that doesn't mean that it doesn't suck. And my ultimate point is that there is no excuse for making terrible toys when we all know they can do better.

Anyway, Hauls! 5 lb. brick of silly putty. I use this stuff at work as a stress ball and the one I was using was... gross. So time to get new stuff. CW Onslaught and Scattorshot. Scattorshot is ok. Another Silverbolt retool. I would have liked to see a more "Computron-esque" head for the Computron mode, but the redeco for Superion works well enough. Diamond Select Enterprise D. Thinkgeek got these in stock for $60 so I got one. I had one before but had to sell it which sucked because it's the best version of the TNG Enterprise that one can get. I have a fiber optic model that I've been working on for years and I'm pretty much giving up on that because even if finished it's not going to look better than this.
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Onslaught Six
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Re: December Hauls

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I will say they do look like they have decent detail and paint, and if you're just going to put them on a shelf and display them that's fine. But I actually do stuff with my figures. I put them in environments and poses and have even made toyfare style cartoons with them. For something like that, 5POA just doesn't cut it. I have an Imperial call center set up at my desk at work. The Stormtroopers are the reps sitting at the computers in the cubicles. You think any of these First Order guys are gonna pull that off? Not a chance. I also have a feeling that because Hasbro has done it and they can do it, that they should do it. There should be as much articulation and detail as possible.

Also, why should kids get the short end of the stick just because they're kids? When I was 5 and I was playing with the old Kenner figures I always wished they had more movement. I always wondered why they could put joints on the head and shoulders but not like, the waist. And is $8-$10 really that cost prohibitive? I mean, even I could have afforded that back in the 80s. I really hate that companies treat kids as if they're stupid or not worth effort. This is why MLP got so popular because no one could believe that a kids show didn't treat kids like they're idiots.
I'm not about to sit here and say that there should only be this line--I bought Black Kylo Ren and not the 5POA version, for example--but I can understand it in part for some characters and for a certain price point.

I'm not saying kids should get screwed out of good toys--far from it--but I think there definitely needs to be a cheaper alternative line with the right balance of play quality and affordability. We can argue all day that we would want the best Kylo Ren as a kid, with all the articulation and detail and everything, but you also have to think--if given a choice between just getting a Kylo Ren OR getting Kylo Ren AND a Stormtrooper (or Kylo and Finn, or whatever), I'll bet you 9 out of 10 kids will choose to get both.
Stormtroopers need at least 10 points of articulation (and that is minimum). Stormtroopers should have enough articulation to be posed as if they are shooting, running or standing at attention. That is not negotiable. (A similar principle applies to Cobra Troopers.)
Having something like a dozen Cobra Troopers (I ended up buying 2 or so of every variation in the 25th line, all in--would've had more if my package from Scourge hadn't gotten stolen), I can safely say that I wouldn't have minded paying half price for a significantly reduced amount of articulation on some of them that stand in the back. I agree that having some Stormtroopers with maximum articulation is great, but after a certain threshold I think you can get to a level where the price is outweighing the reward, right? At $12, I can afford two or three Stormtroopers and that's about it; but much like the kid example up above, at a certain point I can afford to buy 2 fully articulated Stormtroopers and then 2 or 3 5POA ones to bolster the ranks up in the back. I've gotten a handful more of the line at this point now and I can safely say that I definitely wish they had a little more--elbows at least would definitely improve the hell out of most of these figures--but there are definitely characters that I don't feel like spending $12 to have a super great rendition of. It also really helps that the Star Wars figures are moulded and painted well enough that they can more or less seamlessly blend into a display, unlike a lot of the Marvel offerings I've seen (or TF for that matter--very few "Power Attacker" figures look good next to the mainline stuff) so that takes a lot of the "sting" out.

I am in the middle of three Christmases right now, but here's some of the stuff I got so far:

-PZ-whatever number, the blue robot from Force Awakens. I liked this design, it's pegwarming, it was cheap, and I found out later it's actually a female robot, so that's neat too. Definitely one where I'm not minding the 5POA and honestly wouldn't expect a whole lot out of a "fully" articulated figure either.
-5POA Finn (Jakku) who is cheap and is Finn. I like the design but not really enough to want to shell out $12 for him; but this one was actually a gift so it's all good.
-5POA Sith Inquisitor guy from Rebels. Gift from Randi who was like "Well I saw the guy and thought he looked cool and then we saw the movie and he wasn't fucking in it. What the hell, why would they release guys from other Star Wars shit in the movie line?" That's a fantastic question, Randi.
-A set of new fancy expensive microphones!
-A new guitar! Well, new to me.
-A cool Decepticon/Cobra cast shot shirt in neat orange and blue colours, and a rad neon Predator shirt with a doofy tagline from the posters or something.
-NECA Dark Horse Comics Predator; this is the one painted up like the old Dark Horse comics Predator. Wow, that sounded stupid as fuck. This is my first NECA toy and my first Predator, but it definitely won't be the last (I plan on at least 2 more) and it's in great quality. The box is wonderful and the paint is superb, and there's only like 1 loose joint in the whole figure (left wrist) and nothing was too tight or broke off; NECA's QC has been occasionally known to be spotty so I was always apprehensive about the line, but this one seems to be good. Oh, and his rocket shoulder pack thing won't stay on, which sucks, but maybe some nail polish will tighten it up.

Hoping for some really cool stuff but I'm also not holding my breath. I also have work at 10pm tonight; kill me.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: December Hauls

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Onslaught Six wrote:I got SW Black 4" Kylo Ren and the Basic series TIE Pilot. Kylo Ten is fantastic; even at $12 he is everything you'd want from a modern, super articulated Star Wars figure. Where the mainline fails, this succeeds. Only complaint is that his head is moulded to his hood, which kinda sucks, but you just know there's going to be a later version that fixes that, and has an unmasked head, and is from another movie.

So I bought the TIE Pilot to act as a control unit to Kylo; we all like to complain about Hasbro's 5POA figure revolution or whatever, but I wanted to buy one to be like, I bought one so I know if I'll hate it. And...I don't hate it?? Like, I'm starting to come around on this for some stuff. I would never want a GI Joe with 5POA (I own one from Retaliation) and it really fucks over Marvel...but for Star Wars? I don't know if I need a hyper articulated version of that blue robot in 2 shots of the movie, or an alien who got cut, or all the Stormtroopers. Shit, I have a ton of Cobra Troopers and I probably would be fine if a few of those had been cheaper and less articulated. Plus, kids could use a cheaper alternative line that is affordable for them. I still wish they maybe had goddamn elbows (even the slit elbows older SW figures had) but they can improve on the line over time. In an era of $9 Scouts and $17 Deluxes, the idea of walking out of the store with a cool robot for $6 is an attractive concept.
The 5POA figures have pretty good sculpting, I'm not down on them but I reserve them only for characters I can't or won't get elsewhere - SW Rebels is a good example of this. But they're what, $8 with those dumb build-a-weapon accessories? That's ludicrously overpriced, when they come back down next year to $7 (based on past events, the movies cause a $2 increase in base figure prices that then drops down a buck when sales slow) it's still going to be a tough pill to swallow.

Stormtroopers IMO need super articulation to give them more defining poses and personality and indviduality in displays, but droids need only what you see them do in the movie, which is generally 5 to 9 POA (elbows yeah, waist too). But even droids need tilting waists IMO which is a joint they've cut entirely. And figures need ankle joints no matter what, screw knees, every figure needs to be able to stand and some of those foot molds are funked angles.

Shockwave wrote:I will say they do look like they have decent detail and paint, and if you're just going to put them on a shelf and display them that's fine. But I actually do stuff with my figures. I put them in environments and poses and have even made toyfare style cartoons with them. For something like that, 5POA just doesn't cut it. I have an Imperial call center set up at my desk at work. The Stormtroopers are the reps sitting at the computers in the cubicles. You think any of these First Order guys are gonna pull that off? Not a chance. I also have a feeling that because Hasbro has done it and they can do it, that they should do it. There should be as much articulation and detail as possible.

Also, why should kids get the short end of the stick just because they're kids? When I was 5 and I was playing with the old Kenner figures I always wished they had more movement. I always wondered why they could put joints on the head and shoulders but not like, the waist. And is $8-$10 really that cost prohibitive? I mean, even I could have afforded that back in the 80s. I really hate that companies treat kids as if they're stupid or not worth effort. This is why MLP got so popular because no one could believe that a kids show didn't treat kids like they're idiots.

Sorry. That was more of a rant than I intended. You know what? let's end on a high note: Go buy Legends Shockwave. He's awesome. The perfect blending between old and new designs with articulation that actually rivals some of my afformentioned SW guys. Great detail and interesting transformation. This thing is pure win. Yeah, I know, username, but if this figure sucked, I would say so. But it doesn't.
I agree, but at the same time, Hasbro was getting complaints and testing issues showing the super articulation was making figures hard to play with for little kids, so having SA and 5POA side by side is good (except for the ridiculous pricing). That said, the SA mold sculpting was turning into shit, quality was falling apart under the new leadership where prototypes would get turned into gappy, ugly sculpts by China and then get awful paint on top of that. So it's all in need of fixing still. $8-$10 for a 5POA figure is cost-prohibitive when it's not well painted and there's very little value in the package; including build-a-weapon parts doesn't save this (and to hell with those armor figures, those are a shameless cashgrab and should die in a fire) because the parts aren't compelling on their own. Keep in mind, $10 in 1980 is $28.36 today, if you think any parent is going to let a kid spend $30 value on these little things, you're not realistic. Price increases is what drove buyers away from the line in '85 in the first place.

Yeah, Legends Shockwave is a real pleasure, good shout-out.

Dom wrote:Hasbro would argue that people are trying to save money. And, (obviously) Hasbro is trying to cut costs for themselves. Every point of articulation is at least two moving parts. Those parts require individual tooling. Hasbro could probably do it. But, why should they? They know that people will buy junk, so they will sell it.
Shock wrote:Hasbro probably would say that, but smaller parts use less plastic and ultimately, less material. And, I can't help thinking that essentially maintaining two lines (the "cheap" one and the Black series) costs more than if they just released a few more figures in the Black series to begin with. I mean, I get what you're saying but that doesn't mean that it doesn't suck. And my ultimate point is that there is no excuse for making terrible toys when we all know they can do better.
The more parts, the more they cost to shoot in molds (because joint parts are generally not ABS but PVC, so a second material runner with different shrinkage rates, it's complicated) and they then have to be manufactured which costs a LOT more (injection-molded joints require aligning one part in the mold cavity of a separate part, then injecting material at the right temperature to form properly without locking up the other material). I've spent 16 years covering Hasbro Star Wars and I come from a family of engineers, including my step-father who is a manufacturing engineer that's made tooling for everybody from Sony to NASA, and I can tell you that less parts = cheaper on both sides of the equation.

Running 2 lines at once generally doesn't cost anything, the Hasbro SW team is running a lot of products at once under its umbrella, 2 main lines is generally common - in fact, the 5POA line is 4 different SKUs for just basic figures, then another SKU for the deluxe boxed armor-up figures, and the WM Black Series 3.75" line gets its own SKU run through 2 departments (exclusives and main brand management) with ease. Star Wars is a healthy enough brand to support several lines, while GI Joe is not.
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Re: December Hauls

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Xmas Eve hauls...

25" American Tourister spinner suitcase
Swiss Gear backpack
Big Fuzzie throw
Lucille's BBQ gift card
In-n-Out Burger gift card
Darden gift card
Farmer Boys gift card
Entertainment Weekly Ultimate Star Wars Guide (how quaint ;) )
A second MyPillow to complete my bed set
Yoda mini-stocking
candy
cookies
popcorn
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Onslaught Six
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Re: December Hauls

Post by Onslaught Six »

I ended up getting money. Yay, money. That sounds disappointing, because it sorta is; but when you're using that money to buy a new synthesizer, well...
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: December Hauls

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Money good. Download a Moog app for your tablet and keep the cash. ;)


Xmas day hauls:
- 850va UPS battery backup for my pc
- Kindle Paperwhite
- Star Trek transporter pad coasters
- slippers
- another backpack :p
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Dominic
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Re: December Hauls

Post by Dominic »

Every moving part adds cost to the manufacturing process. Less articulation is cheaper.
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Re: December Hauls

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Well I guess if they actually got feedback from parents and kids about it, I can't really fault them for listening to their customers. So now I'm going to fault parents and kids for actually wanting shittier toys. Anyway, when it comes to Star Wars, I don't really trip out too much because I have confidence that at some point there will be better versions of the figures I want. They're certainly not going to want to leave Force Awakens characters off the SW Black list for very long.

Anyway, Xmas hauls!:

PS4 Battlefront bundle
A new tv (well half, I paid half for it with the parents)
SW Black Han Solo carbonite
SW Black Imperial Naval Commander
R2D2 USB Car charger
Star Trek TOS uniform hoodie (gold)
Star Trek TNG Uniform t-shirt (gold)
Metal Earth Enterprise D
Metal Earth Optimus Prime
God of War III for PS4
a T-shirt
a Hawaiian shirt
An orange polo
a Masonic hoodie
a Force Awakens t-shirt
candy
cookies
a knife with my name and Masonic Lodge # etched into the handle
a Transformers bookmark
$50 cash
a Minions blanket
Star Trek TOS uniform beach towel

Yeah, my Mom had fun on Thinkgeek this year. Which cool because some of that stuff was stuff I was thinking of getting myself (the Trek t-shirt and hoodies are things I actually asked for last year and didn't get).
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Re: December Hauls

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Shockwave wrote:Well I guess if they actually got feedback from parents and kids about it, I can't really fault them for listening to their customers. So now I'm going to fault parents and kids for actually wanting shittier toys. Anyway, when it comes to Star Wars, I don't really trip out too much because I have confidence that at some point there will be better versions of the figures I want. They're certainly not going to want to leave Force Awakens characters off the SW Black list for very long.
Little kids are confounded by too much articulation, it's too many parts to move to get the toy to look the way they want for play and they don't understand the dynamics of movement too well yet. If it's not fun and it's too expensive, obviously those are problems for the target consumer. Do I think they swung too far in the opposite way? Absolutely. But ultimately collectors fade away and new consumers need to be had.
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