multiversal musings

[Dominic]

As much as I generally dislike the over-use of alternate timelines and such, most of my pull-file at the moment consists of comics that only work if one assumes.....a multiverse.

One thing that strikes me is that "Transformers" as a brand has one of the best managed multiverses that I can think of.

Alternative timelines (regardless of terminology used to describe them) have been a specific part of "Transformers" since "Target: 2006", when Furman introduced the idea of them as cover for him not being able to match up with the US comics and/or the 1986 movie.

Furman was smart to do this. As vague as he tried to keep "Target: 2006", it was not wholly consistent with the movie. And, there were also inconsistencies between the US and UK comics. Furman getting the "explanation" on the table before anybody asked for it make the inevitable errors seem less like errors. In contrast, Marvel and DC largely use the idea of a multiverse and alternate timelines to cover errors or to allow for stupid one-off gimmicks.

Other properties have a multiverse ("Star Trek", "GI Joe"). But, the idea is used infrequently enough to not be worth considering in those cases.

The naming convention for TF timelines is convoluted, but it is (as far as I know) largely consistent. And, it is backwards compatible, allowing it to retroactively account for older (inconsistent) content by publication date, original media and branding. Most people are not going to care. But, anybody who does care has something to work from.

And, aside from Fun Publications trying to foist the idea of "multiversal singularities" on the fandom (which seems to have been mostly abandoned), it largely works.

Nobody seems to want to do a "Crisis as Time Runs Out on Cybertron", probably because they know it would not really solve anything.

Unless I am wrong, only 5 established timelines have been destroyed over 30+ years, meaning it is still kind of a big deal with it happens.

-Universe: Assuming that the arena from the 3H "Universe" comics existed in its own timeline, it was destroyed at the end of "Universe".
-Target 2006: The future introduced/implied in "Target: 2006" was destroyed in "Time Wars" after history was altered beyond repair. This also had the effect of letting Furman ditch a number of plots that he no longer needed. (The timeline introduced for utilitarian reasons was disposed of for similar reasons.)
-Classics: Fun Publications continuation of the original Marvel series was destroyed in "Invasion". On page, this restored one or two other timelines, including the setting for "Another Time and Place".


In contrast, DC made a big deal about bringing back their multiverse nearly a decade ago. And, after (barely) defining it, might be tweaking it further. DC promises multiversal epics, but barely establishes (let alone uses) anything before discarding it.

Marvel is planning to either discard or (severely) prune their multiverse, a change that nobody expects to have any lasting effect.


In this one regard, "Transformers" seems to have a better idea of how to manage the idea of multiple timelines than Marvel or DC. Aside form a complex naming/numbering system, nobody really seems to try managing it. Marvel and DC might want to take note.

[BWprowl]

TF's rather laid-back approach to multiversal continuity has always been an amusing appeal point for the franchise. Several times I've talked with friends or acquaintances about their fandoms, be it Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer, or what have you, and they'll talk about levels of canon of specifically-defined alternate timelines and official canonization of off-shot content and all that, at which point I'll bring up TF and drop the 'Everything Is Canon' bombshell about Hasro's approach.

It's both a ridiculous and surprisingly elegant solution. On the one hand, yes, you end up with a bazillion extraneous continuities from packaging bios and coloring books and disparate comic book timelines that don't *quite* match up, but you ALSO avoid having to explicitly define what does and doesn't *count* in one place or another. Maybe the Cybertron cartoon is a direct continuation of Armada and Energon. Maybe it only works from some *alternate* version of those shows. Maybe you can just yell "Unicron Singularity!" and run away. But it *counts* dammit, because Hasbro said so.

It also results in fun times revisiting any number of those alternates some time in the future. We've gotten at least two different continuations of the old Marvel continuity (both of which were ended in spectacular, if quantifiably disparate, fashion). We've gotten additions to the G1 cartoon. We've gotten several extraneous bits tacked onto the Beast Wars cartoon, some of those themselves bringing in alternate versions of Japanese continuity. For ages I've wanted to see the original Beast Wars toy-packaging-bio universe get revisited in fiction somewhere. It could still happen, somehow, with the way things are done!

Admittedly FunPub is the one that gets the most mileage out of the multiverse itself, and they haven't done much that's good with it (Hasbro TRIED back in the day with the original Universe, but went pretty much nowhere), but with the way things are managed (or aren't) the possibility for others to will always be there, and that's an appeal.

Unless I am wrong, only 5 established timelines have been destroyed over 30+ years, meaning it is still kind of a big deal with it happens.

-Universe: Assuming that the arena from the 3H "Universe" comics existed in its own timeline, it was destroyed at the end of "Universe".
-Target 2006: The future introduced/implied in "Target: 2006" was destroyed in "Time Wars" after history was altered beyond repair. This also had the effect of letting Furman ditch a number of plots that he no longer needed. (The timeline introduced for utilitarian reasons was disposed of for similar reasons.)
-Classics: Fun Publications continuation of the original Marvel series was destroyed in "Invasion". On page, this restored one or two other timelines, including the setting for "Another Time and Place".

Don't forget about the 'Challenge of the Go-Bots' universe, which was officially designated as a TF universe offshoot. Makes me wonder if Machine Robo is in there too, even further away from the 'center' as it were. Hell, what about Diaclone?

[Dominic]

It's both a ridiculous and surprisingly elegant solution. On the one hand, yes, you end up with a bazillion extraneous continuities from packaging bios and coloring books and disparate comic book timelines that don't *quite* match up, but you ALSO avoid having to explicitly define what does and doesn't *count* in one place or another.

But, for people who do care, there is a way to "make it fit".

Unless I end up working for Hasbro (or a license holder), I am never going to bother researching where a given piece of minutia fits. But, the methodology exists (assuming said minutia has not already been catalogued.

Maybe you can just yell "Unicron Singularity!" and run away. But it *counts* dammit, because Hasbro said so.

Of course, even that gets ignored.

We've gotten at least two different continuations of the old Marvel continuity (both of which were ended in spectacular, if quantifiably disparate, fashion).

And, despite the differences in tone and quality, both were allowed to progress.

The same could be said of Dreamwave "Armada". Fun Publications' "Cybertron" comic had plot points that assumed the DW "Armada" and "Energon" comics had progressed.

Admittedly FunPub is the one that gets the most mileage out of the multiverse itself, and they haven't done much that's good with it

And, Hasbro's benign neglect makes it *harder* for Fun Publications to do much damage beyond their own comics.

Contradictions are assumed to be alternate timelines. If Fun Publications tried to pull a "Crisis", Hasbro would shut them down....by ignoring them and moving on.

Don't forget about the 'Challenge of the Go-Bots' universe, which was officially designated as a TF universe offshoot.

Yup, that was one of the other restored timelines.

[andersonh1]

Transformers is almost always toyline first, fiction second. So when the toyline gets reset, so does the fiction. A variety of continuities are impossible to avoid. It's just the practical reality of the situation. It's not really the same situation at all as DC or Marvel who have much longer runs with characters, and try to find a way to explain them all. Or in DC's case, they are a company that buys other comic companies and their characters and tries to constantly incorporate them into its universe, causing major headaches that the next cosmic reset will deal with.

It's apples and oranges really.

[BWprowl]

Transformers is almost always toyline first, fiction second. So when the toyline gets reset, so does the fiction. A variety of continuities are impossible to avoid. It's just the practical reality of the situation. It's not really the same situation at all as DC or Marvel who have much longer runs with characters, and try to find a way to explain them all.

Hasbro did *claim* they were going to try something like this with WfC, going into that 'Aligned' continuity, but then that fell through pretty much instantaneously, at least as soon as they revealed that it and TFPrime were taking place in the same continuity.

Yeah, RID15 now is supposedly taking place within the same timeline as WfC/FoC; wrap your head around *that*.

[Dominic]

It is also a question of the fandom having more turn-over. Even allowing for the fact that Hasbro recognizes adult fans, there is still significant turn-over with kids. (This is even more an issue in Japan.) In order to keep the property accessible, it needs to restart from time to time. Even if one assumes that "the Unicron Trilogy" is a series, each year's worth of product needs to be able to stand alone.

Relative to the "back of the box", Hasbro has had a few resets.

1984-1991: G1 was more or less a linear story. Later years saw "upgrades" in technology (the various "Master" classes or more common merge teams) as well as upgrades for existing characters (Bumblebee, Optimus etc).

Generation 2: Arguably a reset, but the numbers "2" makes it a continuation.

1995-2001: There were arguably two resets here. The early beast era packages, which assumed the characters were on late 20th Century Earth, were different from the later packages profiles, which corresponded to the show.

2001: "Robots in Disguise" was marketed as a fresh start. (Oddly, Japan tried to make it fit with G1.)

2002-2006: "The Unicron Trilogy" was a more or less consistent series. "Universe" ran at about the same time, with a deliberately loose context that happened to be the first time that Hasbro formally used the idea of a Multiverse. Later "Universe"/"Generations" toys were arguably continuations of the UT, specificallty the K-Mart exclusive Minicon box sets.

2006: Hasbro did not establish anything about "Classics". However,"Classics" was established as a continuation of G1 by Fun Publications. Takara specifically treated it as at least one new timeline (package comics), though possibly two (if one counts Million Year Publishing as different).

2008: "Universe"/"Generations" was mostly a continuation of 2006 "Classics", running alternating years with Bayformers.

2010: "Power Core Combiners" was arguably a reset (relative to "Generations"?) in that combiner tech was depicted as new/rare.

2012: Hasbro launches "Aligned", which includes "War for Cybertron" (possibly including "Generations") and "Transformers: Prime"

2013 and later: "Generations" largely corresponds to IDW comics.

[Shockwave]

I actually tend to think of everything from 84-Beast Machines as one single continuity (sort of). G1 essentially already has at least 3 multiverses:

Sunbow cartoon
Marvel US Comic
Marvel UK Comic

G2 (which continues off of the US Comic)
Beast Wars and Beast Machines (vaguely continuing off from some version of G1)

Then there's also Animated, which was it's own continuity.

[Dominic]

I was just accounting for Hasbro (the ultimate decider of these matters) in the post above.

Ironically, the Sunbow cartoon only assumes a multiverse if you try to reconcile outright mistakes.

The US and UK comics (both at the direction of Furman) specifically included a multiverse. Taken literally, they also obligated a multiverse for the US and UK "GI Joe" comics, particularly relative to G2.

IDW arguably uses the multiverse idea more than Fun Publications. Both "Infestation" series include TF, as well as other properties. That is along with the dead Universe *and* the timeline(s) created by Brainstorm's briefcase.

[Shockwave]

Wait, so I'm confused, are we listing the different continuities or are we only discussing genres of TF that have had in story multiverses?

[Onslaught Six]

I think you're using "multiverse" to describe "alternate universes" and muddling things up. Not that it matters.

Technically all of TF fiction is "the multiverse," with each continuity/etc. being a seperate "universe" or even sub-universe (I would consider things like the varying Marvel continuities to be "sub-universes" being as they all relate to one another and are vastly similar to each other.)

Of course, this is all made up bullshit so it doesn't matter!