Re: Comics are Awesome III
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:27 pm
Earth 2B?Dominic wrote: a different Earth 2 than the modern Earth 2 that the upcoming series will be named for.
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Earth 2B?Dominic wrote: a different Earth 2 than the modern Earth 2 that the upcoming series will be named for.
That may well end up being the case.
And considering CoIE and subsequent Crisis' were now prevented, then any cities destroyed in Convergence should have been undone and restored along with their home universe.
I think the idea was that some characters were duplicated (being drawn from different timelines).Things like Guy Guarder being a Red Lantern in one issue and then suddenly shown as a Green Lantern in the next was certainly a mistake.
I would go with statements from Didio and King. But, author statements and intent to not mean significant long-term planning.There are plenty of opposing viewpoints on what exactly happened at CBR and elsewhere, which proves that the end result should have been spelled out more clearly. But Superman, Parallax and the others were charged with preventing the collapse of the multiverse, and they succeeded, so the old one never ceased to exist. They really should have taken more time to work out plot mechanics and explain the implications than they did, which to me is another sign that they probably changed things at the last minute.
Earth Not 2B.Shockwave wrote:Earth 2B?Dominic wrote: a different Earth 2 than the modern Earth 2 that the upcoming series will be named for.
So it's not one multiverse evolving into another. It's both the old and new being illustrated.At heart, Convergence is about redemption. For Dick Grayson, a father of a missing son and murdered wife, Thomas Wayne who lived when his son died; and to a greater extent all the Earth 2 heroes; Val Zod, Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Yolanda Montez who 'lost' a fight for their Earth. They all get a second shot to make things right in Convergence. In the same way, heroes from pre-Flashpoint and in some cases pre-Crisis get a shot at redemption too. The battle to save not one, but two multiverses in Convergence provides it.
What do you see as Brainiac's ultimate endgame?
The Brainiac in Convergence is a hologram of the entire DCU. The Ultimate Brainiac we meet in Convergence that is a living record of every story that one of his iterations has, or will, experience. He possess knowledge of every hero, villain, city or time line that has or will ever exist.
His goal as god machine was to be a receptacle of that knowledge starting with the beginning of time and extending out forever, in every universe and every time line. But Crisis changed that, derailed it if you will. This uber Brainiac became obsessed with restoring the balance of creation and destruction that was present at the beginning.
So he began collecting the doomed cities and timelines in an effort to understand them and use that knowledge to reverse the Crisis and restore the natural order of the Universe. That change from observer to player corrupted him, because the timelines that he absorbed to gain the knowledge of them were corrupted themselves. The convergence of all time lines back into one has been his goal since Crisis. His endgame if you will.
Is there a story to be told in the adventure of the "doomed" heroes who went back to Crisis on Infinite Earths?
Absolutely. I'd look for at least one, maybe more.
That asked, do you see them as being basically like the survivors of the first Crisis? Particularly with the Superman/Lois coupling, I could be happy with those characters still being out there somewhere.
They are. Post-Convergence, Superman, Lois and Jonathan Kent are on an Earth somewhere, right now, resuming their lives that were on hold since Flashpoint.
Is it safe to assume that there is an infinite mutliverse again rather than just 52 worlds? And if so, even if the primary worlds are "evolved" into their New 52 counterparts, does that suggest that there's probably another one just like it out there somewhere?
Yes, In Convergence #8 we reference Multiversity and show you some of the Post-Convergence worlds that make up the reconstituted DC Multiverse. In many ways, the number of Worlds is now infinite. There may even be more than one Multiverse.
"I have knowledge they existed," says Brainiac of the Earth-2 heroes as he tries to wipe them out. Is that a bit meta? When DC wipes out a world from the multiverse the response of creators is often "nobody took those books off my shelf; it's still there."
Convergence speaks to that directly. In his way, Brainiac represents a collected experience of all the creators, and by extension readers, of DC Comics. Ever. I've said this a few times during panels and interviews and his is what I meant: Post-Convergence, every character that ever existed, in either Continuity or Canon, is now available to us as storytellers. You may not see them right away, but they are out there. And of course, when you get to the end of Convergence you understand that is more than meta, it is concrete as well.
There are two covers to Convergence #8 with heroes on them. Andy Kubert's wonderful Superman, Lois, and Jonathan Kent with Supergirl, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan Parallax cradled in the palm of Brainiac. And then Tony Daniel's variant with Telos and the survivors of Earth 2, Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, Wildcat and Dick Grayson who is on his way to becoming his new world's Batman looking off past camera into a new, hopeful future. You will see them next in Earth 2: Society from Daniel Wilson and Jorge Jimenez. I will let you draw your own conclusions about the pre-Crisis characters on Andy's cover
Certainly there were multiple versions of the same characters on Talos, but that's not what I'm talking about. This was the New 52 version of Guy that was watching Telos breaking into their reality. There's no reason he would have suddenly gone from Red to Green between issues like that.Dominic wrote:I think the idea was that some characters were duplicated (being drawn from different timelines).
For what it's worth, Jeff King says...Sparky Prime wrote:Certainly there were multiple versions of the same characters on Talos, but that's not what I'm talking about. This was the New 52 version of Guy that was watching Telos breaking into their reality. There's no reason he would have suddenly gone from Red to Green between issues like that.Dominic wrote:I think the idea was that some characters were duplicated (being drawn from different timelines).
I've noticed a few apparent continuity errors. When we last saw the Guardians in Green Lantern #40 they were in their green and brown outfits; however, in Convergence #6 they make a cameo wearing the red and white robes of the old Guardians. Also, in Convergence #6, Guy Gardner is a Red Lantern, but in Convergence #7, he's in his old Green Lantern uniform. Are these simply things that the artists and editors missed or is it a sign of some of the changes that Convergence is going to have on Prime Earth? - John Baumeister
When Convergence*#6 and #7 were being drawn, the Red Lanterns were still alive! They aren't now but might be again. Guy Gardner is certainly a fan favorite. Our plan always was the breakdown of reality the arrival of planet Telos heralds was already subtly affecting the heroes on the Watchtower, Guy Gardner in particular, hence the subtle variations in their appearance and of course, we really see it deeply affect those three heroes in #7 (Martian Manhunter, Superman and Supergirl).
I can understand Convergence was written before the end of Red Lanterns so those characters would have still been alive at the time (as I suspected), but even 'reality being in flux' still doesn't explain everything. Changing from a RL to GL is hardly just a "subtle" variation in appearance. I mean, maybe if some of the other characters had some more significant changes like Guy did that'd be more believable... Nor would it explain why the Guardians are in the traditional robes in the issue before that, or why Jediah Caul is there and alive when he was killed off long before Convergence was being written.andersonh1 wrote:For what it's worth, Jeff King says...
Bullshit.At heart, Convergence is about redemption.
And, despite this being the big plan of "Convergence", none of the previews of solicits we have seen (which look forward about 3 months) indicate that anything from "Convergence" was meant to be used again?Is there a story to be told in the adventure of the "doomed" heroes who went back to Crisis on Infinite Earths?
Absolutely. I'd look for at least one, maybe more.
Oh for....Yes, In Convergence #8 we reference Multiversity and show you some of the Post-Convergence worlds that make up the reconstituted DC Multiverse. In many ways, the number of Worlds is now infinite. There may even be more than one Multiverse.
And, what plans are there to use the old characters? What are those plans? Why is nothing ready to go afte the big event? (Yes, we know the real answers to these questions. But, i would love to hear DC/King's take on them.)You may not see them right away, but they are out there.
I think that is something we can all agree on.I think they just got it wrong during the editing process, and King is trying to explain it away after the fact.
It definitely read better than the first issue.Convergence Detective Comics #2