Comics are Awesome III

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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

Post by andersonh1 »

Yeah, it's "Convergence" because characters from many different timelines have converged on one little planet outside space and time, though not by choice. Brainiac, the collector of cities since he first appeared during the Silver Age, this time collected cities from doomed timelines instead of doomed planets. And in doing so, he's preserved all these DC characters that were wiped out by the various Crisis storylines and reboots that DC has done over the years, because he exists outside space and time and can access any point in space and time.
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Dominic
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Flipped through some "Convergence" at the comic shop yesterday.

The pre-CoIE Titans were apparently sent back to an intact pre-CoIE Earth 1 as was Swamp Thing. The vampire Gotham was destroyed in the Wonder Woman issue. (Not sure if it was specifically Earth 43's Gotham. But, one can hope.) It looks like the multiverse will be getting expanded, effectively dating Morrison's "Mutiversity Guidebook" almost as soon as it was published.

Not, it remains to be seen if DC will do anything substantial with it. Most of the previews and solicits thus far have indicated that DC is more or less returning to status quo immediately after "Convergence". The big changes are not likely until after "Divergence", late this year or early next year. This is may be indicative of the fact that DC was not planning for "Convergence" to have as much of an impact as it might end up having.

EDIT: Also, on that map of the DCU a while back, did it show anything for Eternia, Despondos or Etheria from MOTU? I only ask because there was a brief cross over with MOTU and DCU a while back and it's still canon in the current story. In fact, Skeletor mentions that on his way back to Eternia from Earth, he kept going to the wrong Eternia and encountering various other versions of himself.
Unless DC/Warner owns something, it is unlikely to be included in a source-book or anything else that cannot be easily discarded.

On page, the "Muliversity Guidebook" map only specified Earths, not other planets. For example, Earth 1 would imply a Universe 1 and other numbered planets (Mars 1, Krypton 1, etc). Eternia, not being Earth, would likely be duplicated along with other planets. Applying the logic of some of the DC alternates to Eternia could be good or bad news, depending.

Eternia 2 would likely be okay. Eternia 3 would be the home of a heroic Keldor fighting the tyranny of Lord Randor and his enforcer/son He-Man. Eternia 15 would have been destroyed with Universe 15. Eternia 51 may have fallen to the morticocus plague. Eternia 10....well He-Man traditionally wore an iron cross.
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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/23/ ... nvergence/
Bleeding Cool recently reported that the many different worlds collected on the Battleworld world of the Convergence would be seen again after the event, despite original plans for them not to.

Well, at the DC All Access panel at Denver Comic Con, Convergence writer Jeff King stated that the after the Convergence “Every character will now be available to storytellers. We won’t see them all right away, but we will have the opportunity to bring them together again.”

Though it seems he was then told he shouldn’t have said it. Oops…
Good news. And by this point, I figured the characters would survive the event. Prior to Convergence they were already gone, so it made very little sense to bring them back for two months only to destroy them again. But then this is DC, a company known for not handling their characters in ways that make sense, so I wasn't certain. And like everything else DC does, this seems to have been decided on the fly, possibly after sales were fairly strong.

Anyway, we'll see what, if anything, they do with their older properties in future.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/23/ ... -and-more/
While looking at the cover of the final issue of Convergence, out May 27, Jeff King explained the plot of the event in brief for the audience. He highlighted the connections between Crisis on Infinite Earth (whose characters will have events happening to them after Convergence, he said), Worlds End, and Convergence. He said that #8 will give us a “revelation about who Braniac really is”. Asked how the DC universe will change after Convergence, King said that “Every character will now be available to storytellers. We won’t see them all right away, but we will have the opportunity to bring them together again”. There’s a Denver Comic Con variant cover of Convergence #1, King said, which shows Earth 2 characters “new to the DC Universe” available at the Graphitti Designs booth.
So Convergence has restored many of the characters wiped out in all the various Crises of DC's past, including Zero Hour, Flashpoint and, amazingly, the big one: Crisis on Infiite Earths. That's pretty significant for what started out as a filler event. How significant it is depends on what they do with these characters in future.
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Anderson wrote:Batman '66 #22
Jeff Parker takes the month off and Mike W Barr is the writer. It's a nice change of pace, with some of the funniest one-liners in some time for the Adam West and Burt Ward versions of Batman and Robin. The art is very cartoony, but it suits the tone of this book better than it would other books. The Penguin catches on to Batman's plot to catch him with a valuable umbrella, so he decides to turn the tables and trap Batman with some bat-themed crimes. We even get a death trap for a mid-book cliffhanger, and one of those "climbing the wall" scenes. After a fairly sombre issue last month, it's nice to be back in the lighter territory that the book usually occupies. I'd be in favor of Barr writing more issues in future if this is a sample of how he'd approach the book.
I must admit, I didn't care for this issue. It had a fun premise but was executed pretty poorly, and the art was not just stylized but downright lazy to me. This felt like them taking it to an entirely kiddie book, and then to have Teen Titans Go shit in the back didn't help.


So aside from that, I also read:

Archie vs. Predator 1 - an interesting idea, a joke that almost executes well, but is a bit heavy-handed with almost compressed characterizations, and then having the Predator readout giving his personal opinions on Betty & Veronica via emoji was just WTF, especially right as we've seen him in a brutal scene of the Blossom twins' murders. Not on par with Afterlife, but readable. The Sabrina meets Hellboy single page at the end was kinda fun.

SW Kanan 1 and 2 - bleh, very little characterization and very perfunctory story so far, feels quite stuck in the post-ROTS comic era. A very on-rails story with a deus ex machina at the end of pt 2 that comes out of nowhere and doesn't feel remotely earned. Disappointing given what a great character they have to work with.
Image
See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Dominic wrote:
EDIT: Also, on that map of the DCU a while back, did it show anything for Eternia, Despondos or Etheria from MOTU? I only ask because there was a brief cross over with MOTU and DCU a while back and it's still canon in the current story. In fact, Skeletor mentions that on his way back to Eternia from Earth, he kept going to the wrong Eternia and encountering various other versions of himself.
Unless DC/Warner owns something, it is unlikely to be included in a source-book or anything else that cannot be easily discarded.

On page, the "Muliversity Guidebook" map only specified Earths, not other planets. For example, Earth 1 would imply a Universe 1 and other numbered planets (Mars 1, Krypton 1, etc). Eternia, not being Earth, would likely be duplicated along with other planets. Applying the logic of some of the DC alternates to Eternia could be good or bad news, depending.

Eternia 2 would likely be okay. Eternia 3 would be the home of a heroic Keldor fighting the tyranny of Lord Randor and his enforcer/son He-Man. Eternia 15 would have been destroyed with Universe 15. Eternia 51 may have fallen to the morticocus plague. Eternia 10....well He-Man traditionally wore an iron cross.
Oh ok. I just wondered because in the current MOTU comic it's implied that Earth is another dimension from Eternia. You don't just hop in a spaceship and fly to Eternia, you have to open some sort of dimensional portal, like it's another universe or something. The same is also implied of Trolla. This latest issue almost outright stated that this was the reason Skeletor had trouble getting back to HIS Eternia and dimension hopped to several others before finally getting back to his.

Also, what with villains not wanting to be villains anymore? First Megatron joins the Autobots and now Skeletor wants to work with He-Man and She-Ra to defeat Hordak. And has clearly stated that after that, he's done trying to take over Eternia. Something bout seeing all other versions of himself losing and doesn't want to be a loser as well.
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Dominic
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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And like everything else DC does, this seems to have been decided on the fly, possibly after sales were fairly strong.

Anyway, we'll see what, if anything, they do with their older properties in future.
Last week's books offered "on page" proof of this. I get the feeling that it was an 11th hour call by DC. Of course, it remains to be seen what, if anything, will be done with it.

My guess is that we will not see solicits for any of the relevant titles until August or so. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only *new* books we have seen previews for are the Bat-Mite and Bizarro titles. Everything else is more or less a return to normal, nothing more than new arcs (at most).

Archie vs. Predator 1 - an interesting idea, a joke that almost executes well, but is a bit heavy-handed with almost compressed characterizations, and then having the Predator readout giving his personal opinions on Betty & Veronica via emoji was just WTF, especially right as we've seen him in a brutal scene of the Blossom twins' murders. Not on par with Afterlife, but readable. The Sabrina meets Hellboy single page at the end was kinda fun.
What?!? What were the Blossoms packing to justify getting killed by the Predator? (Is Archie ignoring the "Predator only kills armed opponents" rule?)

I flipped through it (and somehow missed the deaths of two characters). Archie is trying to too hard to be clever and sophisticated. In practical terms, they are coming off as "Avatar-lite" and possibly diluting their brand.

SW Kanan 1 and 2 - bleh, very little characterization and very perfunctory story so far, feels quite stuck in the post-ROTS comic era. A very on-rails story with a deus ex machina at the end of pt 2 that comes out of nowhere and doesn't feel remotely earned. Disappointing given what a great character they have to work with.
I wanted to like the SW books, and bought "Darth Vader" #1. Having Vader go to Jabba's Palace to hire Fett and an obviously doomed no-namer was just too much in the direction of "look at the movie guys yiou remember". I only flipped through issue 2 and/or 3. Does Vader get any better? (I am a huge fan of Gillen, and might be willing to give that book another chance.)
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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I'll get to the tie-in issues later when I've had a chance to read them. I forgot to pick up Booster Gold, which may well clarify some things in the main book, so I'll look for that next time I'm in the comic shop.

Convergence #8
So, where to begin with this?

To summarize the plot, Parallax made a major mistake when he killed Deimos. That released all of the temporal energy and has made the planet Telos, as Doctor Fate puts it, a "bullet that will shatter the multiverse". In other words, it will destroy all of reality. Parallax says that he can stop it and save everyone, but Telos restrains him. Waverider and Booster Gold arrive, and they release Brainiac, who at first wants to kill everyone until Superman talks some sense into him.

Brainiac himself has changed, and he's not happy with what he's become. He wanted to be the most intelligent being in the universe, and when he survived Flashpoint unchanged, he began his Multiversal experiment, which altered him considerably into the being we saw in Future's End. But he wants to go back to being who he was before, and doesn't want to die when the multiverse ends. So he agrees to help, and the solution is to "reset the multiverse" by sending everyone back to where they came from to prevent all the various reality-altering events from occurring... including the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. It seems to me that preventing that would wipe out everyone from post-Crisis timelines, but apparently it won't, so maybe we have something more akin to Hypertime here. But since I think we don't get the original planned ending for Convergence, which I'll get into shortly, that may explain the confusing ending.

Brainiac sends Barry Allen and Supergirl back to die in the Crisis... which, if they're going to prevent it, doesn't quite make sense, but anyway... post-Crisis Superman insists on going to help stop the Crisis, and so does Parallax, who wants a chance to redeem himself. Lois insists on going along with him and brings their son, because they said for better or for worse when they got married, and she meant what she said. The six head back in time to the Crisis and (off panel) succeed in stopping it.

The upshot of that is that now nothing has ever been wiped from reality. Every story and every character exists again. They're out there somewhere in the infinite realities. There are several two page spreads depicting the Earths we saw in the Multiversity Guidebook compared with the original version, declaring that "everything has evolved, but it still exists" which again, doesn't quite make sense. Brainiac wipes the planet Telos clean of the cities he had captured before returning to his own home universe, hopefully to be himself again. The Earth 2 characters find themselves still on Telos, back in their own universe, courtesy of the humanoid Telos, who says that this is their new Earth and that they'll meet again. So this is the lead-in to Earth2 Society.

So...

Well, despite the fact that things don't quite make logical sense when it comes to cause and effect, I'm certainly pleased with the end result of this story. Everything is now in continuity. Pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, everything from the 30s to the present happened somewhere in DC's fictional universe. Every reality altering event has been undone, and yet the changed universes that came about as a result of those events also exist. Somehow. It's Hypertime, essentially, which Tangent Superman mentioned in last week's Flash issue, so someone is aware of the implications.

I don't think this is how the story was supposed to end. I think these characters were going to sacrifice themselves for the New 52 reality. Characters being sent back to die makes a lot more sense that way. New universes superimposed on originals makes a lot more sense that way. But then this whole event has been edited rather poorly, and a lot of continuity errors have slipped in. But I don't think that accounts for it. I think that just as Flashpoint was repurposed to create the New 52, something it wasn't originally intended to do, Convergence was repurposed to try and make disaffected DC fans happy by bringing everything back. I think it was originally a filler event that offered closure, but someone figured out that it was likely to do even more damage, so at the last minute they decided that everyone lived, whether it made sense or not, and they could sort it out later. Some of the tie-ins feel like they were written with a more final end in mind than the one we got, while some were very open ended and forward looking. I don't have evidence for this, I'm just trying to read between the lines.

If nothing else, a DC event that restores every bit of fiction they've ever published to continuity ought to have felt more epic than Convergence ultimately ended up feeling, which is another bit of evidence that it wasn't originally meant to do what it did.

In any case, I've enjoyed the story, I've enjoyed most of the tie-ins that I've read, and I certainly like the end result, so I'm happy to overlook the flaws and look forward to hopefully seeing these older characters again in the near future. We will see what DC decides to do going forward. At least now my wallet can have a rest... I didn't mind spending this much on comics for two months, but I wouldn't want to do it indefinitely.

Convergence World's Finest #2
I get the feeling that this book was written with the end goal of a final story for these characters rather than what has become the usual open-ended finale for the various tie-ins. The Shining Knight has been chosen as the champion for Metropolis and he's pitted against Qward's champion. Scribbly is told to clear off the battlefield after nearly being killed, and he does so. He finds the Vigilante and Crimson Avenger so they can help Shining Knight, but Telos interferes and sets them against an army of Qwardians. Scribbly decides that he has to help the Knight and runs off, leaving Vigilante and Crimson Avenger to discuss whether they're still part of the Seven Soldiers any more with Green Arrow, Speedy and Stripesy dead and the Star Spangled Kid working with Infinity Inc. But they dive into the fray knowing they're likely not to live through it.

This book has a real last stand, sense of doom about it that most of the other tie-ins haven't had. In the end Sir Justin wins his fight, but he will not kill the Qwardian champion, demanding that he yield. Telos is outraged, calls him useless, and sends him back to his city to "meet the fate that was about to happen anyway". Crimson Avenger and Vigilante may or may not be dead, and the book ends on a down note that implies they're all about to die, but that Scribbly is glad to have lived in an age of heroes.

I said in the review of Convergence #8 that I suspect the original goal was to close the door on the pre-52 characters, and this series makes me think that is the case. None of the other books I've read finish off the characters they bring back. Now I haven't read every tie-in, not even all the ones I bought this week, so I may have to take that assessment back. But this by far the bleakest story. I'll say this though, that the writer does a great job of keeping the Seven Soldiers in character, especially the Shining Knight. As for the bleak ending, maybe since Sir Justin was at the court of King Arthur, the author was inspired to write an ending for the Seven Soldiers that mirrors the end of Arthur's knights and his kingdom, which wasn't a happy one.

Convergence Justice Society of America #2
This is the book that I wish World's Finest had been: a celebration of the characters rather than a tragic last stand. The last stand was implied last issue and this, but it doesn't happen, making me wonder again if the ending was changed at the last minute.

Doctor Fate has temporarily restored the youth of himself, Jay Garrick, Alan Scott and Carter Hall, and they dive in to rescue endangered civilians and stop the Qwardian war machine. Nearly the entire book is a long battle scene as the four damage the machine, find that it can repair itself, and have to adjust their tactics to finish it off.

What makes the story such a contrast to World's Finest, and such an enjoyable story to read, is how the characters are written. At first they are grim and determined as they rescue innocents and try to stop the machine. But as the fight goes on, they start to enjoy being young and powerful again, despite the circumstances. They relive the joy of the incredible powers that each was given, and reflect on how privileged they were to have lived the lives they did. And they figure out how to attack and defeat the Qwardian machine, with each of the four carrying out their portion of the strategy like a well-oiled machine. It reflects how long they've worked together as a team and how well they know each other. And they win the fight, destroying the war machine.

There's a time skip (during which at least Jay and Kent Nelson went to Telos, since they appeared in Convergence #8) and then, despite last issue implying that they'd burn out and die as their youth ended, they're all back to being old and enjoying each other's company, with no sign of any ill effects. As they walk down the street, Jay starts to ask "Do you remember the time..." and Alan answers "I remember them all." Great ending.
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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andersonh1 wrote:Well, despite the fact that things don't quite make logical sense when it comes to cause and effect, I'm certainly pleased with the end result of this story. Everything is now in continuity. Pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, everything from the 30s to the present happened somewhere in DC's fictional universe. Every reality altering event has been undone, and yet the changed universes that came about as a result of those events also exist. Somehow. It's Hypertime, essentially, which Tangent Superman mentioned in last week's Flash issue, so someone is aware of the implications.
Interesting way to end this event that was only meant to fill in for two months. Undoing CoIE and every subsequent multiverse altering event is a big thing. I'd agree, it does feel a bit like what they did with Flashpoint in re-purposing it to become a much more significant event than it was originally meant to be, but unlike Flashpoint, I gotta say I feel they've handled this a lot better. While it doesn't explain everything, it is good that the infinite multiverse has been restored to allow for anything and everything to have happened and is still going once again. In an unintended way, I feel this could actually explain why the Anti-Monitor is back to his original appearance if they stopped his plans to destroy the multiverse at the beginning.
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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I think that Anderson is weighing King's recent comments (linked above) a bit heavily here. In real terms, they are probably more indicative of DC's plans (at least DC's plans this week) than the last few pages of "Convergence". But, given the confused state of the last issue, I suppose Anderson would be grabbing for whatever crutch DC made available. (I know that I certainly am.)


It seems to me that preventing that would wipe out everyone from post-Crisis timelines, but apparently it won't, so maybe we have something more akin to Hypertime here. But since I think we don't get the original planned ending for Convergence, which I'll get into shortly, that may explain the confusing ending.
And, yup, the thing you might want to use as a crutch (the comic in your hands) turns in to a tire iron....to the back of your knees.

Joking aside, I tend to think that "Convergence" was hastily re-written to allow for the "everything counts" ending implied by King's comments.

are several two page spreads depicting the Earths we saw in the Multiversity Guidebook compared with the original version, declaring that "everything has evolved, but it still exists" which again, doesn't quite make sense.
Exactly. King's comments (if I read them correctly) imply that both pre-CoIE Earths 3, 4 and 10 still exist alongside their modern analogues. The art would imply that they were changed to their modern iterations. (I much prefer the modern iteration of 10 and 4. I would prefer the old Earth 17. But, clarity either way would be nice.)

And, if we take the art as is, then DC's multiverse is still down several worlds. The world of Lord Volt and Lady Quark (Earth 40-something) would have been destroyed. Earth 43 (the vampire Earth) was destroyed. And, whatever future "DC One Million" represents was probably destroyed by the Crime Syndicate. Unless of course all of that ends up undone.

The Earth 2 characters find themselves still on Telos, back in their own universe, courtesy of the humanoid Telos, who says that this is their new Earth and that they'll meet again. So this is the lead-in to Earth2 Society.
Which, if we take the art literally, would rule out the continuation dangled at the end of this week's "Detective Comics" tie-in. Any continuation featuring that iteration of Grayson and Wayne would require a different Earth 2 than the modern Earth 2 that the upcoming series will be named for.

But then this whole event has been edited rather poorly, and a lot of continuity errors have slipped in.
I am not sure that all of those things were mistakes. The two variants of Barry Allen were likely intentional. It is likely similar to Marvel's Battleworld, where there are multiple variants of certain characters around.

We will see what DC decides to do going forward.
Indeed.
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Dominic wrote:And, if we take the art as is, then DC's multiverse is still down several worlds. The world of Lord Volt and Lady Quark (Earth 40-something) would have been destroyed. Earth 43 (the vampire Earth) was destroyed. And, whatever future "DC One Million" represents was probably destroyed by the Crime Syndicate. Unless of course all of that ends up undone.
As I've pointed out a couple of times before, the Lord Volt and Lady Quark shown in Convergence was from the pre-Crisis Earth-6. Remember, Brainaic took all of the cities in Convergence from universes moments before they were destroyed, so none of these universes belong to what was shown in the Multiversity guidebook as none of those universes have been destroyed. The 52 Earth-48 is very similar to the pre-Crisis Earth-6, but they are two different universes.

And considering CoIE and subsequent Crisis' were now prevented, then any cities destroyed in Convergence should have been undone and restored along with their home universe.
Which, if we take the art literally, would rule out the continuation dangled at the end of this week's "Detective Comics" tie-in. Any continuation featuring that iteration of Grayson and Wayne would require a different Earth 2 than the modern Earth 2 that the upcoming series will be named for.
Earth 2 Society is the New 52 version of Earth 2, not the pre-Crisis version.
I am not sure that all of those things were mistakes. The two variants of Barry Allen were likely intentional. It is likely similar to Marvel's Battleworld, where there are multiple variants of certain characters around.
Things like Guy Guarder being a Red Lantern in one issue and then suddenly shown as a Green Lantern in the next was certainly a mistake.
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