Comics are Awesome III

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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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So now Superman is kicking opponents in the balls and thinking about how good it feels to cut loose. I'm starting to wonder if it's actually him. Sure, he's in a pretty stressful situation, but he's been depowered before, and his whole attitude and outlook doesn't feel like Superman at all. But then the New 52 version never has anyway.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... /?a=121483

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Sparky Prime
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Why does that article say he gets a surprising new name? They call him Kent, which isn't a new name, and with his secret identity exposed, is not surprising. Remember when some of us said we thought Superman looked like a street brawler when they debuted this new look of his? Well apparently that's what they were going for, seeing as that's exactly what he's doing. Not only in this preview, but several other's I've seen as well. For one thing though, it does make some sense he'd be fighting dirty. While he's been de-powered before, he's never had his identity exposed like this while de-powered. Makes him a weakened target. But his attitude of enjoying being able to cut loose while beating those thugs does seem really out of place for the character.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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I totally distrust new DC as much as anyone. However-Action Comics is still written by Greg Pak, and he's really good. So if I was still buying comics regularly, and wasn't just done with DC, that is a book I would be buying.
Dominic wrote: too many people likely would have enjoyed it as....well a house-elf gang-bang.

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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Dominic wrote:I am going to straight-up call bull-shit on everything King says in that interview. It is not fair to blame King himself. He is working from what DC has given him. But, that does not make what he is saying any more sensible.
You were right to be skeptical. Check out Dan Didio's non-committal answers.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/artic ... ng-forward
You described "Convergence" as a surprise hit -- was there worry internally that it might not be as big as it was, or that readers would disregard it as something that could be skipped?

That's in every single project we do. [Laughs] From lenticular covers to zero issues, to the launch of The New 52, there's always that moment of anxiousness and anticipation right before the launch that makes you wonder, "Is this a good idea or not?"

In this particular case, with "Convergence," I was hoping to appeal to so many of our fans. We called it a little bit of a love letter to our fanbase, and hopefully it came across in that fashion. Hopefully people got a chance to see characters and interpretations they remember, in ways they felt represented them properly, in stories they feel brought a nice sense of closure; or a sense of exposure to those characters themselves. My fingers are crossed that everybody felt it was a full and rewarding event, and hopefully they have a sense of excitement for DC again from that.

It also embraces the sense that DC has changed over the years. That's what it's saying. The fact that we're changing now, again, is just an extension of what we've always done -- so hopefully, with that level of understanding, they'll be able to jump on board and look at the new directions for the characters, and get excited about them now, as they did when they first read them in previous interpretations.

The end of "Convergence," continuity-wise, established that all of this stuff is kind of still out there.

Is that how you interpret it?

It's how it's been interpreted.

That's how it's been interpreted, you're absolutely right. [Laughs]

Do you disagree with that interpretation?

I think what's fun is the conversation that it creates at this moment between the fans. As a longtime fan before joining DC, nobody was ever out there explaining the comic stories to me. We went out and tried to figure it out. I think what you'll see in the future are stories that will help bring some level of clarity to that. But from where we stand right now, I love the conversation. I love the excitement of people trying to figure it out, and make sense of what they see in front of them, and what it might be, or might not be, at the end of the day.

Since "Convergence" was such a big hit, and people were happy to see these earlier versions of characters -- is there at least a possibility that they could be revisited somewhere down the line?

I always feel that we should always be looking forward. I feel very strongly about that. I think we have to be looking to the future. Instead of looking to the past of what we've done, I think we've got to embrace where we're heading, and what things might be coming in the future of our books and characters. Not to discount anything, but realistically, I'm more excited about where we can go than where we've been. This was a great chance to see everybody, but I think after a while, you want to start seeing where we can be going to, and what can be new and fresh.

It's clear when you see what's happening, not just with DC but the other companies -- new ideas, new directions. As long as they're true to the interpretations of the characters, and are recognizable at the core, I think it's very important for us to modernize, update and contemporize where we stand with our characters and stories, looking forward from this point, into the future.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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The end of "Convergence," continuity-wise, established that all of this stuff is kind of still out there.

Is that how you interpret it?

It's how it's been interpreted.

That's how it's been interpreted, you're absolutely right. [Laughs]
...Wait what? Is he seriously suggesting there is another way to interpret it when the book clearly states they prevented the collapse of the multiverse in CoIE?
Since "Convergence" was such a big hit, and people were happy to see these earlier versions of characters -- is there at least a possibility that they could be revisited somewhere down the line?

I always feel that we should always be looking forward. I feel very strongly about that. I think we have to be looking to the future. Instead of looking to the past of what we've done, I think we've got to embrace where we're heading, and what things might be coming in the future of our books and characters. Not to discount anything, but realistically, I'm more excited about where we can go than where we've been. This was a great chance to see everybody, but I think after a while, you want to start seeing where we can be going to, and what can be new and fresh.
That's not what he asked you DiDio. And besides, why can't they look forward to the future with earlier versions of the characters as well? I mean, there is absolutely no reason why they can't still tell new and fresh stories with them. While I've enjoyed the New 52, or parts of it at least, I do think there are a few elements they've lost that I found more interesting than what they're doing with the stories now. Seeing how popular Convergence was should show DiDio he's wrong about only looking forward. They shouldn't loose sight of where they came from.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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I can't help but think that Didio has dug a hole for himself and for DC with the reboot, and having done that, there's nothing he can do but keep digging. Yeah, he got a huge temporary sales boost for DC which is nothing to sneeze at, but it hasn't been sustainable, and the New 52 ultimately failed, or else the branding would still be on the books. To go back would be to admit failure.

And, as you say, there's no reason they couldn't have kept moving forward with the pre-52 characters. They just chose not to. Not a single year of the New 52, even at its best, topped 2006 sales when Infinite Crisis was the big event. DC squandered that audience.

Didio's like a politician: no straight answer for a straight question.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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He really cannot win.

This is similar to what happened with "Shattered Glass" in 2008. Fun Publications releases an April Fool's joke that people liked better than the actual comic. (This is probably more a reflection on the fan base than the quality of the comics. But that is another discussion.) Fun Publications then changed "Shattered Glass" around to make it more appealing to the group that liked it. (It did not result in better comics. But, again, that is another discussion.)

In this case, DC had a filler event that was supposed to be a "last look" at the old stuff, ending with a clear re-establishment of the relatively new (from 2011) stuff. But, it seems that the old stuff is selling, even as part of a filler event.


You were right to be skeptical. Check out Dan Didio's non-committal answers.
Didio really cannot win.

If he goes with his real/original plan, he annoys readers. But, he cannot just turn the whole company on a dime and adapt to what "Convergence" sales indicate would sell more books. (The solicitations that drop in August or September are the thing we should be looking to for DC's plans.)
...Wait what? Is he seriously suggesting there is another way to interpret it when the book clearly states they prevented the collapse of the multiverse in CoIE?
Yes?

Remember, the week that issue 8 dropped, Didio and King were out on the internet saying things to the effect of "despite what showed up on page in issue 8, what we really meant was...."

The art does not convey the idea that the old multiverse is back (despite what Didio and King were saying). The dialogue does not really correspond to the art (likely because of last minute changes).

I get the feeling that somebody at DC wants to just bring the old stuff back, and somebody else does not.


I always feel that we should always be looking forward. I feel very strongly about that. I think we have to be looking to the future. Instead of looking to the past of what we've done, I think we've got to embrace where we're heading, and what things might be coming in the future of our books and characters. Not to discount anything, but realistically, I'm more excited about where we can go than where we've been. This was a great chance to see everybody, but I think after a while, you want to start seeing where we can be going to, and what can be new and fresh.
In theory, I agree with Didio. In practice, looking forward requires a plan and more follow-through than DC has been able to muster. (Remember the Manhunter's anticipated heel-turn? That has not happened, and it is not likely to if early solicits for the upcoming book at to be taken seriously.)

I think what you'll see in the future are stories that will help bring some level of clarity to that.
I hope so.

But, I get the feeling that DC has yet to figure out what they are doing.

The end of "Convergence," continuity-wise, established that all of this stuff is kind of still out there.

Is that how you interpret it?
Not quite. Comments made my Didio and King implied that the stuff is out there. And, Didio don't seem too sure either way. The dialogue is not very helpful. And, the art clearly implies that the old is being "over-written" by the new.

Many of the tie-in books ended with at least one city clearly destroyed or named characters clearly dying, hardly the sort of resolutions that imply a return or continuation of something. Others ended more ambiguously. DC had not plan to bring the old (pre-2011) stuff back until after issue 4 or 5 shipped (at the earliest). Now, Didio and the company are probably trying to figure out what they can salvage from their plans while keeping some old stuff.



All the same, "Earth 2: Society" dropped today. It was auto-added to my pull-list, and I went back to pull the "Booster Gold" issue with the preview pages. They are currently sitting in my pull-file. I will get to them at some point, likely in August or so. (Still catching up on comics from last week and other reading.)

I plan to make decisions about my pull file in August or September. The plan is to have no more than 5 titles that I am committed to buying. Depending on how things look with Marvel after "Secret Wars", "Earth 2: Society" might have a chance.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Dominic wrote:Yes?

Remember, the week that issue 8 dropped, Didio and King were out on the internet saying things to the effect of "despite what showed up on page in issue 8, what we really meant was...."
Actually, King had said: "Yes, In Convergence #8 we reference Multiversity and show you some of the Post-Convergence worlds that make up the reconstituted DC Multiverse. In many ways, the number of Worlds is now infinite. There may even be more than one Multiverse.", and in an interview just before the release of #8: "Every character will now be available to storytellers. We won’t see them all right away, but we will have the opportunity to bring them together again", which both statements just reaffirms exactly what the fans got out of the book.

And DiDio... Can't say that I've seen him really say anything definitive on the subject other than suggesting it's up to interpretation here. Which again, I don't see how, given the issue and the writer are both pretty clear about it.
The art does not convey the idea that the old multiverse is back (despite what Didio and King were saying). The dialogue does not really correspond to the art (likely because of last minute changes).
As I pointed out above, King had said they referenced Multiversity, and I think that's what they were going for with that particular piece of art. Considering Multiversity JUST defined the shape of the DC multiverse, I think they wanted to reassure fans bringing back the old Multiverse hasn't changed those particular Earth's and thus that they haven't made Multiversity irrelevant within the span of a few months. That said, it only shows 15 Earth's. Clearly it's only meant to represent a small fraction of alternate universes either way. There's absolutely no reason to assume based on that art alone that it's meant to suggest Convergence hadn't brought back the infinite Multiverse.
I get the feeling that somebody at DC wants to just bring the old stuff back, and somebody else does not.
Well DiDio has never made it a secret he's not a supporter of continuity and all of that...
Not quite. Comments made my Didio and King implied that the stuff is out there. And, Didio don't seem too sure either way. The dialogue is not very helpful. And, the art clearly implies that the old is being "over-written" by the new.
How is the dialogue not helpful? It plainly states the heroes have to stop the collapse of the multiverse during the first crisis, and in an instant later, Brainiac says he knows they succeeded. The art on the other hand I'd say isn't that helpful. I don't agree it "clearly implies" the old is overwritten by the new. It could just as easily represent the old multiverse designations being contrasted by the new, which is how I take it, while the original versions now exist once again, either elsewhere in the Multiverse or in another Multiverse as King suggests.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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And DiDio... Can't say that I've seen him really say anything definitive on the subject other than suggesting it's up to interpretation here. Which again, I don't see how, given the issue and the writer are both pretty clear about it.
It was either Didio or somebody directly under him who made comments similar to King's a few weeks back.

King was very clear, but it was post-hoc.

The art shows various alternate Earths, with the old (generally pre-2011) characters being half-strength images behind the current characters. That implies the old stuff fading out or being over-written by the new stuff. (E16, which has no pre-2011 analogue, actually has its own "past" as the background image.) A narration box specifies that the multiverse still exists, but that the Earths have "evolved". Many people (before seeing King's comments) took that to mean that old E3 became current E3. The fact that the old stuff was depicted in half-strength implies it was getting over-written.

But, comments from King and DC at around the same time seemed to imply that everything (old and new) was on the table.

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Re: Comics are Awesome III

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Dominic wrote:It was either Didio or somebody directly under him who made comments similar to King's a few weeks back.
Considering the interview andersonh1 posted a link to this week, I doubt DiDio had similar comments to King's...
The art shows various alternate Earths, with the old (generally pre-2011) characters being half-strength images behind the current characters. That implies the old stuff fading out or being over-written by the new stuff. (E16, which has no pre-2011 analogue, actually has its own "past" as the background image.) A narration box specifies that the multiverse still exists, but that the Earths have "evolved". Many people (before seeing King's comments) took that to mean that old E3 became current E3. The fact that the old stuff was depicted in half-strength implies it was getting over-written.

I saw plenty of different reactions before King's comments. Having the old stuff faded in the background doesn't necessarily imply it's getting over-written by the new at all. Like I said, it just as easily implies the new designations along with the old for a comparison, showing that the Multiversity designations still counts moving forward. Not to mention, considering the New-52 Earth 2 characters existed alongside the original Earth-2 counterparts during Convergence, how could one have 'evolved' to become the other?

And Earth-16, to my understanding, was actually based on the "Super Son's" world, originally designated as the Pre-Crisis Earth 154. Although it's odd that in Convergence, the past version actually seems to be based on the 90's versions of the characters.
But, comments from King and DC at around the same time seemed to imply that everything (old and new) was on the table.
Not "seemed to imply", King outright said "every character will now be available to storytellers".

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