Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer toy

Ancillary, non-main-line stuff. Star Wars TF, Speed Stars, Titanium Series, Robot Heroes, that sort of thing. They're kinda neat, but we all know they're not really that important. Admit it, you know it's true.
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Dominic
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Dominic »

Maybe it is because I grew up in an area with various ethnicities, it has never bothered me at a visceral level. (Honestly, I am kind of shocked when I meet open racists, especially around here. It just does not make economic sense to be bigoted.) Yes, I have met racists. But, i am not going to racialize all of my entertainment and information to balance that out.

I do not care if Cornell West is black. He is a rabble-rousing huckster who is not above using his race. Rod Parsely is a bible thumping lunatic who happens to be white. Alan Keyes is a reasonable conservative who happens to be black.

Like I said, me pointing out your race thing came out a bit more snittily than I intended for it to.

"Zero build up" can't really be explained any more concisely. There was no suspense. As for its meaning, as far as I was concerned, it didn't matter whether Yoda or Dooku won. What was at stake? Maybe I missed something. Just seemed like a grudge match.
Yoda was defending Anakin and Kenobi who were very much out classed by Dooku. That was the stake of the fight. Yoda using a lightsaber, rather than mind tricks, is complained about because it deviated from what the audience just expected because of the original movies.
I'm an evaluator for a media company.
If you do not mind discussing it here, what exactly does that entail? It sounds like you look at demographics and try to reach audiences, (much to the presumed delight of advertisers).

I've gotten much better at reining it in, believe it or not!
Grades are a powerful incentive to clam up. (Aside from storming out of a class run by a woefully under-prepared cretin last fall, I have generally mellowed out as well.)

Oh, hey, big question: "Always two, there are; master, and apprentice". Can someone write out a little Sith Pairs Timeline for me so I understand who these pairs were throughout all six movies? I don't get it.
I am unsure what the in-context reasoning is. My guess is that two likely allows for enough internal tension and competition for Sith to never by complacent. But, the real reason seems to be narrative expedient.


The Sith Lords:

Plageous the Wise and Sidious: Plageous either discovered, or at least refined, the trick of using the force to create life. At some point, he either taught Sidious the trick, or he created at least one such being before Sidious smothered him with his own teddy bear. it is implied that Anakin is the product of the "create life" trick, arguably giving him Sith lineage. (Source books indicate that Maul has similar origins.)

Sidious/Maul: Shown in episode 1. There is little shown about their relationship. They are noteworthy largely for the Jedi's reaction to them. (They seem to think that Maul is the master, owing to how terrible he seems. It is assumed that few if any living Jedi remember even seeing a Sith.) Maul killing QGJ effectively puts Anakin in the hands of an unprepared, if well meaning, master.

Sidious/Tyrannus: It has to be assumed that being a Sith is a very specific state of haven "gone over", and that it is possible for a Jedi to be teetering while a Sith cultivates a new apprentice. The time-line implied by Episode 2 would have Tyrannus "ready to go" right around when Maul died. The peripheral comics and cartoons imply that Tyrannus had taken an apprentice, presumably intending to kill Sidious and replace him as master. Tyrannus also tries to recruit Kenobi, (his intellectual grandson), in Episode 2. Tyrannus was originally trained by Yoda, and went on to train QGJ. In a sense, he can claim a spot in Anakin's lineage.

Sidious/Vader: The circle completes itself. Vader is damaged goods, giving Sidious incentive to want to replace him. (Remember, Vader is the *only* character in the movies for whom force lighting is more than an annoyance. The cyborg bits are less a solution than a "best possible choice" for him being crippled.) Vader of course wants to rule with his sone at his side. Both try, and fail, to recruit Luke. And, in true Sith fashion, they end up killing each other.

Presumably, by the end of Episode 6, Luke is balanced with just enough of the light and dark sides of the force to keep the Sith from being a problem at least for the remainder of his life.


Dom
-but the really fannish comics kind of screw that up.




There was also speculation that Sidious was a former Jedi. But, some really bad EU comics put paid to that.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Dominic »

And, to head off one of the obvious responses:

No, the above is not sexist.

It should be pointed out that Anakin's first big "done a bad thing moment' happens after his mother died. And, many of Luke's and Leia's best qualities likely came from their mother. And, Leia, (the obligatory girl from the first movie), clearly had the ol' Skywalker temper.


Dom
-and prequels do not have open mouth incest kisses.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Gomess »

Dominic wrote:Maybe it is because I grew up in an area with various ethnicities, it has never bothered me at a visceral level.
Well, same here. I think the real difference is probably whether you've personally experienced racist abuse, regardless of whether you grew up in a multicultural area. But there's no need to answer that.
Dominic wrote:If you do not mind discussing it here, what exactly does that entail? It sounds like you look at demographics and try to reach audiences, (much to the presumed delight of advertisers).
Most of my work has actually been critiquing media created for use in education, not commercial consumption, specifically whether it shows an awareness of the audience's diverse range of backgrounds and experience. It's not quite as "marketing-y" as all that. I say, "You're less at risk of alienating Asian kids if you put that sentence this way, or use this image instead-" That sort of thing. I guess money does come into it eventually, because in the current economic climate the Money Guys are particularly keen to see whether projects in poorer- and therefore, shameful as it is to say, more ethnically diverse- areas are worth investing in, and it's partly up to me to convince them.

...So... Darth Sidious was ALWAYS the master, in the movies? S'kinda boring. Oh well! As long as it makes vague sense!
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Dominic »

I think the real difference is probably whether you've personally experienced racist abuse, regardless of whether you grew up in a multicultural area.
I have been accused of all sorts of stuff owing to being white and male. That is a kind of prejudice abuse. (I do not lose much sleep over it. But, yeah, for the purposes of this conversation, I will count it.)


How many Sith do you want? Maul is killed in a straight forward fight, after setting up the first move to end with a funeral. Then Sidious set up Tyrannus to be killed by the apprentice that he really wants. (Tyrannus does make an attempt to over-throw Sidious in Episode 2.) Then, Sidous' preferred apprentice is damaged, meaning he needs to be replaced. That shows the Sith being plenty ruthless and nasty to each other.

It's not quite as "marketing-y" as all that. I say, "You're less at risk of alienating Asian kids if you put that sentence this way, or use this image instead-"
You have a product, and you have a market. Education is as much about selling ideas as any other type of marketing. By trying not to alienate a kid from one group or another, you are trying ensure that you make sure your message, (course content, social norms, whatever), reaches the kid.

There is nothing wrong with accountability in education programs, especially publicly funded education programs. The return on that kind of investment should be a bump in education for an area. (A better educated population is more able to find and hold jobs that allow them to pay into the system or, if we are really optimistic, start actually creating wealth rather than consuming it.) If a program is not getting that bump, it should not be funded. It sounds like your job is to help the marketers, (educators), package and deliver the product/message (the subject matter of the courses being taught) so that the audience will consume it and do what you need them to do.

You are effectively trying to sell a product in such a way that gives investors confidence in your venture.


Dom
-sounds like marketing to me.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Gomess »

Dominic wrote:I have been accused of all sorts of stuff owing to being white and male. That is a kind of prejudice abuse.
Yeah, the kind that you can easily put up with. Wensleydale is a *kind of* cheese, but it ain't never gonna be no cheddar. You realise anti-white racism isn't the same as anti-black racism, right? That racism towards those who are typically the oppressors is effectively meaningless in comparison to racism towards the oppressed? There's a reason the white-run media bleeps "n*g**r" but not "honky". The latter isn't actually offensive.
Dominic wrote:Youhaveaproduct,andyouhaveamarket.Educationisasmuchaboutsellingideasasanyothertypeofmarketing.Bytryingnottoalienateakidfromonegrouporanother,youaretryingensurethatyoumakesureyourmessage,(coursecontent,socialnorms,whatever),reachesthekid.Thereisnothingwrongwithaccountabilityineducationprograms,especiallypubliclyfundededucationprograms.Thereturnonthatkindofinvestmentshouldbeabumpineducationforanarea.(Abettereducatedpopulationismoreabletofindandholdjobsthatallowthemtopayintothesystemor,ifwearereallyoptimistic,startactuallycreatingwealthratherthanconsumingit.)Ifaprogramisnotgettingthatbump,itshouldnotbefunded.Itsoundslikeyourjobistohelpthemarketers,(educators),packageanddelivertheproduct/message(thesubjectmatterofthecoursesbeingtaught)sothattheaudiencewillconsumeitanddowhatyouneedthemtodo.Youareeffectivelytryingtosellaproductinsuchawaythatgivesinvestorsconfidenceinyourventure.
O__o

...Dom, is anyone else ever allowed to be right in your world? =3 C'mon, just concede this once that my point is as valid as yours, and you don't neeeed to stomp all over it and try to convince me your way is right. Go onnnn. It'll be fun.

Apologies for derailing another topic, but I just can't help responding to Dom, he's always got something to say.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Dominic »

All I knew is that you worked in "media", which generally involves marketing at some level.

And, it sounds like your job does, in fact, involve marketing.


Dom
-tempted to start an "Earth Force" thread.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Shockwave »

To rerail the topic (sort of, we're actually supposed to be talking about the Darth Vader/Star Destroyer toy, not the universe it's set in). The hatred for the prequels is not because it's not the originals, it's because it contradicts the saga it's supposed to be a part of. There are specifice things referrenced in the original trilogy that the prequels directly contradict and it's so prevelant that it almost reaches a TF G1 cartoon level of consistent retcon. And they absolutely should be compared as they're part of the same story. That's like saying that someone shouldn't compare the first Harry Potter book to the 7th. Now, taken unto themselves and BY THEMSELVES (meaning that one has to now regard the original trilogy as a separate continuity) they're fine. They're good movies (with the exception of Hayden Christiansen's shitty acting). I actually liked the sabre battle between Yoda and Dooku, the stakes were that if the Jedi could defeat Dooku right there, it would end the war.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by 138 Scourge »

Dominic wrote:Aside from "not being the originals", what is wrong with the prequels?


Dom
Well, it's like this. Say you find out there's gonna be some new "Friday the 13th" movies coming out. You decide "Yes, I'd like to watch some more Friday the 13th, indeed". So you go, and there's three new ones, right? And in 'em, you get the founding of the town Crystal Lake, and you find out that there were some dirty deals behind forming the town and all, and you get the story of, I dunno, some farmer or whatever who owns the land that Crystal Lake itself is on. He doesn't necessarily want to give up his land for some park area or campground thing. But the town needs something to draw some dollars, so they kind of muscle his ass out of there. Then there's some bits where you see the camp getting founded, and then the first couple of seasons of Camp Crystal Lake's existence. Then, in a subplot, you get Pamela and...I dunno, Roger Voorhees meeting and falling in love and all that. There's another subplot where some little kid who likes hockey makes the team and becomes a goalie, and he gets his mask, and then in a few years he's gonna come down to the camp and bring said mask along. All of this should be written and acted with about the same level of skill as your average Friday the 13th movie, too, just so we're clear. And then it goes on for three god damn movies that are two and a half hours long each. For an added bonus, Pamela and Roger's dialogue should be the single worst movie courtship ever put to film, right? Dumb as hell lines horribly acted, even if you know damn well the girl playing Pamela Voorhees is a better actress than this. Finally, at the end of the last movie, we get about a six second shot of Jason as he falls into the lake and drowns. And that's all we see of him.

What kind of piece of crap would that be? Well, it'd be the damn prequel trilogy, is what it'd be.

Or, to put it more simply, they're overlong, overblown, poorly written and acted, and no fun at all.
Dominic wrote: too many people likely would have enjoyed it as....well a house-elf gang-bang.
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by BWprowl »

138 Scourge wrote:
Dominic wrote:Aside from "not being the originals", what is wrong with the prequels?


Dom
Well, it's like this. Say you find out there's gonna be some new "Friday the 13th" movies coming out. You decide "Yes, I'd like to watch some more Friday the 13th, indeed". So you go, and there's three new ones, right? And in 'em, you get the founding of the town Crystal Lake, and you find out that there were some dirty deals behind forming the town and all, and you get the story of, I dunno, some farmer or whatever who owns the land that Crystal Lake itself is on. He doesn't necessarily want to give up his land for some park area or campground thing. But the town needs something to draw some dollars, so they kind of muscle his ass out of there. Then there's some bits where you see the camp getting founded, and then the first couple of seasons of Camp Crystal Lake's existence. Then, in a subplot, you get Pamela and...I dunno, Roger Voorhees meeting and falling in love and all that. There's another subplot where some little kid who likes hockey makes the team and becomes a goalie, and he gets his mask, and then in a few years he's gonna come down to the camp and bring said mask along. All of this should be written and acted with about the same level of skill as your average Friday the 13th movie, too, just so we're clear. And then it goes on for three god damn movies that are two and a half hours long each. For an added bonus, Pamela and Roger's dialogue should be the single worst movie courtship ever put to film, right? Dumb as hell lines horribly acted, even if you know damn well the girl playing Pamela Voorhees is a better actress than this. Finally, at the end of the last movie, we get about a six second shot of Jason as he falls into the lake and drowns. And that's all we see of him.

What kind of piece of crap would that be? Well, it'd be the damn prequel trilogy, is what it'd be.

Or, to put it more simply, they're overlong, overblown, poorly written and acted, and no fun at all.
See, the reason that analogy doesn't work for me is because I never thought of Darth Vader as the "star" of Star Wars. It's an ensemble piece, mostly. Of course, I pretty much hate all of Star Wars save for IV and most of VI, so what do I know? (I mean, you wanna talk boring? I'd put it that "Empire Strike Back" is more boring than all of the prequel trilogy.)

I find it hilarious that all of the Sith Lords have eeeeeevil names. Plageous? Really?
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Re: Does anyone plan of buying the SWTF Darthvader 4 changer

Post by Tigermegatron »

Shockwave wrote:To rerail the topic (sort of, we're actually supposed to be talking about the Darth Vader/Star Destroyer toy, not the universe it's set in). The hatred for the prequels is not because it's not the originals, it's because it contradicts the saga it's supposed to be a part of. There are specifice things referrenced in the original trilogy that the prequels directly contradict and it's so prevelant that it almost reaches a TF G1 cartoon level of consistent retcon. And they absolutely should be compared as they're part of the same story. That's like saying that someone shouldn't compare the first Harry Potter book to the 7th. Now, taken unto themselves and BY THEMSELVES (meaning that one has to now regard the original trilogy as a separate continuity) they're fine. They're good movies (with the exception of Hayden Christiansen's shitty acting). I actually liked the sabre battle between Yoda and Dooku, the stakes were that if the Jedi could defeat Dooku right there, it would end the war.
Exactly,I was referring to the toy & not the media it's attached to.

For the most part whenever I buy a new mold TF toy. I seperate the fiction from the toy. I buy the toy solely based off my desired design/sculpt & toy engineering preferences.

I wasn't a fan of the three pre-quels that star wars had either. the actors/actresses were just too amateur & didn't have that much talent. About the only high profile actor the SW Pre-quels had was Samuel jackson. I love that guy he's a acting genious with loads of talent. even when samuel does cameo scenes like in "comming to america" he does a fantastic job.

I think the main problem with the SW Pre-quels is it lacked the high profile talent that the Triliogy SW4,5 & 6 had. another failing factor was the story/arc's in the pre-quels just couldn't hold a candel to the SW4,5 & 6 movies.

To go from nice guy anakin to evil guy vader in the SW3 movie was just too quick. the pacing of that movie was majorly off. I felt the transgression from good anakin to evil vader deserved Another movie like SW 3 & 1/2.

I always viewed the SW6 movie emperor as hundreds or years old like Yoda. and that's why he had that wringled old face & body in SW6. I didn't like the SW3 explanation of the emperoers face because it seemed to come from books wrritten years/decades later. most of these SW Books are not endorsed by steven spielberg nor george lucas, thus I cansider them un-official.
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