thoughts on the Beast-era

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Onslaught Six
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Onslaught Six »

Ehh. I'd rather we didn't pair off an have an exclusive giant RID forum as there just isn't that much *discussion* on it. It was a great little series, and even those who disliked its tone can't deny that it was at least well produced. There just isn't much more to it other than that.

And will you quit arguing semantics? By "takes place in the G1/BW universe," I mean the characters came from there. Which, while entirely possible for CR, and at the least implied by the early catalogs et al, RID directly contradicts in more ways than one. I'm breaking it down to more simplistic terms for the sake of argument--and regardless, at the end of CR, the characters return back to the original universe anyway. (It would be interesting to see them show up on reformatted Cybertron--if Universe didn't make that concept pointless.)
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Gomess
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Gomess »

O6 is right, Sparky; regardless of your definition of "fictional universe", CR is canonically a part of the Japanese Beast Era. Which, of course, is just a dub and embellishment of the American Beast Era. And RiD is just a dub and.. dis..bellishment?.. of CR.

Ergo, RiD is part of the Beast Era! (Y/N)
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Sparky Prime »

Onslaught Six wrote:Ehh. I'd rather we didn't pair off an have an exclusive giant RID forum as there just isn't that much *discussion* on it. It was a great little series, and even those who disliked its tone can't deny that it was at least well produced. There just isn't much more to it other than that.
I didn't say RiD should be on it's own, I suggested maybe partnering it up with other series such as Animated and Machine Wars that don't really fit in with any other continuities.
By "takes place in the G1/BW universe," I mean the characters came from there. Which, while entirely possible for CR, and at the least implied by the early catalogs et al,
Again, there is nothing to suggest what universe they may have originally come from. One toy catalog mentioning they crossed a rift in dimensions doesn't imply anything about the dimension they came from. And, as there is no other references to that effect, anything would be pure fan speculation at best. You cannot claim they came from the G1/BW universe when there is absolutely no canonical evidence to support it.

And being only mentioned in one toy catalog (the first one at that), it's entirely possible it was an early idea they had but subsequently dropped it.
and regardless, at the end of CR, the characters return back to the original universe anyway.
No they don't... All of the bad guys (save for Skybyte, whatever his Japanese name is) are shown trapped in flat, rotating crystals like the Phantom Zone from the Superman movies, apparently left to float into a void forever. All of the Autobots are shown going about their business as usual. And Skybyte is shown swimming away in the ocean singing.
Gomess wrote:O6 is right, Sparky; regardless of your definition of "fictional universe", CR is canonically a part of the Japanese Beast Era.
You are both incorrect. Takara at one point put a continuity chart on their website, establishing Car Robots to be separate from any of the Beast Era continuity. It is officially considered to be a separate continuity on its own, just like RiD is here.

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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Gomess »

Eh, I'm a supporter of Author Intent, and as I said, it's clear from the original catalogues and manga (particularly an overt reference made by Longrack regarding "Commander Fire Convoy") that CR was meant to fit snugly into the BW universe; the accepted canon of the time. If the moderators of Takara's website have decided it's a reboot, fair enough, but for the purposes of our forums, I think most people would find the former more intuitive.

After all, doesn't it really just come down to a simple linear timeline in the end?

(G1, G2) -> (BW, MW, BW2, BWN, BM, CR) -> (AR, EN, CY) -> (Movies) -> (ANI)

There, five forums. Ancillary lines lacking a lot of known fiction to back them up, like Binaltech, Classics and Universe, can naturally fit around these wherever. But it seems clear to me that RiD- or whatever you wanna call it- is a part of what we would now call "Late 90s-Millennium Transformers".

Leaving it in a forum with the Micron Trilogy would just confuse people, implying that it's also a part of that- entirely self-contained- storyline.
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Sparky Prime »

Gomess wrote:Eh, I'm a supporter of Author Intent, and as I said, it's clear from the original catalogues and manga (particularly an overt reference made by Longrack regarding "Commander Fire Convoy") that CR was meant to fit snugly into the BW universe; the accepted canon of the time.
Again one toy catalog actually pertaining to Car Robots making a vague reference to rifts in dimensions is hardly clear. And as pointed out by O6 earlier, the manga are different continuities even to their cartoon counterparts (how is that supposed to snugly fit exactly?). As for author intent, unless you've seen an interview, we really don't know what their intent was. For all we know, maybe they just liked the name. Or jumped to their own conclusions.

As I recall, even when Car Robots originally was on in Japan, there was a great debate among fans (which appears to still be going to this day) over where it fit (if at all) in continuity, as it was never made that clear. Regardless, the accepted canon, as it is, says it's on its own.
If the moderators of Takara's website have decided it's a reboot, fair enough, but for the purposes of our forums, I think most people would find the former more intuitive.

After all, doesn't it really just come down to a simple linear timeline in the end?
I disagree. I don't think it makes sense to group MW and RiD/CR with the Beast Era while everything else is neatly divided mainly by continuity. G1/G2 generates enough discussion to stay on its own. Generally, so does the Beast era. A/E/C it just makes sense to keep the trilogy together. Same for the movies. Animated has lost it's spark since it ended, so I can't really see justify it keeping its own forum. Same goes for MW/RiD... thus why I think those three should be paired together.

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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Gomess »

Well, in a way I agree that the amount of dicussion generated by a series should almost entirely dictate the size of its forum. Heck, have we EVER had a Machine Wars topic? ;p

Perhaps there should just be an "other series" forum containing the ones Sparky lists, and modified regularly as time goes by, as different series rise or lower in prominence? I admit that could require some pretty heavy moderation, though. =/

May I suggest........ A POLL?? 8D
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Mako Crab »

In one episode SkyByte digs a giant hole and finds a rubber ducky at the bottom. Clearly BW Megatron's ducky and proof that they're linked! :lol:

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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Gomess »

Mako Crab wrote:In one episode SkyByte digs a giant hole and finds a rubber ducky at the bottom. Clearly BW Megatron's ducky and proof that they're linked! :lol:
There, see?! Now we can put this divisive matter to bed with a big juicy decisive poll!!
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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Dominic »

A poll might not be a bad idea actually.

I didn't say RiD should be on it's own, I suggested maybe partnering it up with other series such as Animated and Machine Wars that don't really fit in with any other continuities.
I considered this idea, but discarded it. It intuitively makes sense, (toy-wise), to put RiD in with "Machine Wars" and "Universe". But, that runs the risk of creating yet another category that is effectively "misc".

Context, and author intent matter. But, the engineering of the toys puts RiD in the Beast Era. And, there are enough continutity references, (determined largely by when the show came out more than anything more substantive), to place it in the Beast Era.

The problem with author intent is that it can change over time. I am sure that Takara intended TF2K to be part of the beast era. And, it does have thematic consistency with the Japanese Beast years. But, they later (after apparently changing their minds) published the thing that Sparky cited....placing in non-beast context.

(This was one of my last proposals as moderator, so I am lobbying hard to move it to the Beast years, or at least out of the "Unicron Trilogy" section.)


Dom
-gonna start that poll.

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Re: thoughts on the Beast-era

Post by Onslaught Six »

Dominic wrote:The problem with author intent is that it can change over time. I am sure that Takara intended TF2K to be part of the beast era. And, it does have thematic consistency with the Japanese Beast years. But, they later (after apparently changing their minds) published the thing that Sparky cited....placing in non-beast context.
Not quite. Recent Takara crap heavily still implies timetravel, if not crossdimensional stuff, to put the Beast-era Destrongers and Cybertrons on 2000 (?) Earth. Also: Fire Convoy has a Matrix Shard. Or Energon Matrix or whatever you want to call it. The same thing LioConvoy and Big Convoy have. So he definitely has to be from then.

So, regardless, Takara's most recent attempt actually says that CR is even *more* in continuity and that it's on the same Earth. (Of course, these same guys are trying to say the 2007 movie and Animated are in the same continuity. Tomy's insane now.)
-gonna start that poll.
I'm going with the "don't really give a shit" option. :D
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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