Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

The originals... ok, not exactly, but the original named "The TransFormers" anyway. Take THAT, Diaclone!
Generation 1, Generation 2 - Removable fists? Check. Unlicensed vehicle modes? Check. Kickass tape deck robot with transforming cassette minions? DOUBLE CHECK!!!
User avatar
Mako Crab
Supreme-Class
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 pm

Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Mako Crab »

Recently I was reading "The Dark Knight Returns" trade paperback. Excellent story, by the way. The TPB comes with an introduction by Alan Moore where he talks about Frank Miller and what he did to help shape the legend of Batman. This will all come back to Transformers in a moment, but first I'd like to quote Mr. Moore.

"Beyond the imagery, themes, and essential romance of the Dark Knight, Miller has also managed to shape The Batman into a true legend by introducing that element without which all true legends are incomplete and yet which for some reason hardly seems to exist in the world depicted in the average comic book, and that element is time.
All of our best and oldest legends recognize that time passes and that people grow old and die. The legend of Robin Hood would not be complete without the final blind arrow shot to determine the site of his grave. The Norse Legends would lose much of their power were it nor for the knowledge of an eventual Ragnarok, as would the story of Davy Crockett without the existence of an Alamo. In comic books, however, given the commercial fact that a given character will still have to sell to a given audience in ten years' time, these elements are missing. The characters remain in the perpetual limbo of their mid-to-late twenties, and the presence of death in their world is at best a temporary and reversible phenomenon.
With Dark Knight, time has come to the Batman and the capstone that makes legends what they are has finally been fitted. In his engrossing story of a great man's final and greatest battle, Miller has managed to create something radiant which should hopefully illuminate things for the rest of the comic book field, casting a new light upon the problems which face all of us working within the industry and perhaps even guiding us towards some fresh solutions."

As it applies to Transformers, are we missing the element of time? Their war goes on endlessly for millions upon millions of years with little change. Autobots become Maxiimals. Decepticons become Predacons. The names change but little else does.
Death seems to hold no power over the likes of Optimus Prime, Megatron and many others, who consistently "die" and come back to life, usually in a new body, keeping them young and fresh, ready for battle. Essentially stuck in their mid-to-late 20s.

Batman can grow old and tired. He can become an old man. Optimus Prime gets an upgrade every few years, and he's perpetually young. How do you apply time to a species that is basically immortal? The Last Days of Optimus Prime attempted to give Prime a deserved send-off, but I'm left wondering if he truly did die. Is this the Transformers equivalent of "The Dark Knight Returns"? And if so, did it succeed?
User avatar
Onslaught Six
Supreme-Class
Posts: 7023
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:49 am
Location: In front of my computer.
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Onslaught Six »

I've read some stuff like this before. If you'll recall, Transtech's plot was basically going to be that G1 Prime and Megs came back to find that somebody put all these fucking trees on their planet.

I also read a fanfic by DVD once that portrayed Galvatron as a TO dragon living in exile.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
Image
User avatar
Mako Crab
Supreme-Class
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 pm

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Mako Crab »

I'm glad they decided against going with that idea. The original Megatron and Prime back again? To start up their tired old fight again and rehash the same old banter again. Talk about a cyclic war with no end. That idea exemplifies what Mr. Moore was talking about. The original hero and villain show up again, still in top condition, still ready for a fight; basically still stuck in their mid-to-late 20's as he put it. No, I'm very glad they did away with that idea altogether.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Dominic »

The title of this thread scared the heck out of me, as I am not a fan of Moore.

The thing to remember is that it is not just the idea, but the execution. For example, if "Transtech" went through, it might have been a good study in how much the franchise has changed, with Optimus and Megatron being "out of time", much as they were in G2.

Transformers had linear progression for a time, during G1 and G2. There was some during BW, but the franchise was largely rebooted at that point. Hasbro seems to be looking for, and largely reaching, a happy medium, rebooting things every now and then, with linear progression up to a defined end. (Say what I will about the AEC era, all 3 series had solid endings.) for whatever reason, the comics industry cannot seem to manage this, or other variants of the idea, without completely hashing things.

Worse than full reboots are the soft reboots Marvel has long used, and that DC is starting to use. They want continuity and big changes, but they also want things to be just like they were. That is how we get train-wrecks like "Green Lantern: Rebirth", where things just fall into the places they were years ago, but the big events of yesterday are still in context, except when they are not. (Even DC seems unsure of what it wants to do, or how to do it, at this point. Marvel seems to have embraced the "flash in the pan" model.)

If you seperate by the various continuities, fewer characters come back than one might actually think. (The worst examples of characters coming back for the heck of it are in post-"Nemesis" BW stories.)

Dom
User avatar
andersonh1
Moderator
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by andersonh1 »

When it comes to the original continuity (cartoon, comic, whatever) I think Beast Wars brought some degree of mortality and the passage of time to the franchise. It's set 300 years in the future, features no G1 characters as regular cast members, and refers to the characters, events and places from G1 as part of history. Even the factions are different, both in name and in character. The Maximal/Predacon era and the uneasy peace it takes place in are proof positive that the Autobot/Decepticon civil war had an end.

So I really don't get the sense of 'perpetual present day' with the Transformers that I do with comic book characters. There's enough change within the various continuities that we've seen that I get the sense that time is marching forward.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Dominic »

Like I said, TF has a happy medium. They do hard reboots every 5 years or so, and after moving forward for a bit, they do another reboot. Only the most desperate toy-hacks are likely to complain about changes like this.

G1 has had a few "endings", including G2, "Another Time and Place", and "Omega Point".

If you want to see Hasbro do the same thing more clumsily, look at GI Joe.

Dom
-fears TF getting the "Swamp Thing" treatment.
User avatar
badwolf
Minibot
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by badwolf »

Funny that you mentioned DKR I just finished Frank MIller's Born Again with Dare Devil earlier this week & pulled out Dark Knight yesterday & started reading. Just avoid Dark Knight Returns pt 2..it's crap.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
User avatar
BWprowl
Supreme-Class
Posts: 4145
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:15 pm
Location: Shelfwarming, because of Shellforming
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by BWprowl »

This is one thing that I reeeeeaaaally liked about the end of Beast Machines. It seemingly wrapped up everything that had come before it, ending the perpetual state of war that had propelled the plot of TF since the G1 (the implication being that Cybertron's newfound Technoorganic-ness means no more worries about energy and therefore PEACE!, though the logistics of that will be up for debate for a long time to come...), and basically bringing that continuity to its final curtain. We even got to see the ends of two of the more legendary figures who had emerged, Primal and Megatron II, though it would have been nice to see the final fates of Optimus Prime and Megatron/Galvatron/Super Megatron/Whoever rather than just having to accept that them being gone was now part of history. But the POINT is, it was the end of the original TF continuity, and that really made it special in my eyes.

Then Universe came along, undid ALL of that, mashed it together with all the other continuities somehow, stapled it into the so-bad-it-was-good 'Balancing Act' comic, and then finally just left it to die on dwindling life support. And I didn't even read the end of 'Wreckers'. Oh, and they just had to add insult to injury by grafting 'The Gathering' and 'The Ascending' on into the middle there. God DAMN but I hate Furman these days. Here's hoping they don't let that guy anywhere near Animated...
Last edited by BWprowl on Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by Dominic »

Not all of that was Furman's fault. Furman wrote maybe half of the convention comics you mentioned. Glen Hallit made most of the decisions that led to "Universe" and "Wreckers" being so awful. That is when the franchise became insular and backward looking. For a while, it made "GI Joe" look cosmopolitan and progressive, rather than the toy-hack haven it is.

Dom
-thinks the movie and "Animated" might be the only thing keeping the franchise running as strong as it is now.
User avatar
BWprowl
Supreme-Class
Posts: 4145
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:15 pm
Location: Shelfwarming, because of Shellforming
Contact:

Re: Alan Moore, say hello to Transformers

Post by BWprowl »

Dominic wrote:Dom
-thinks the movie and "Animated" might be the only thing keeping the franchise running as strong as it is now.
I agree totally. Can't we just leave the original continuity behind, like I thought we were going to almost ten years ago?

-BW "This is one reason I'm so happy that IDW's G1 comics are just a totally new continuity. Even if the comics themselves are rather hit-or-miss" prowl
Image
Post Reply