New Concepts in Transformers

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BWprowl
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New Concepts in Transformers

Post by BWprowl »

I know I tend to harp on it annually, but man was I ever blown away by Beast Wars back when it first came out. And here’s the thing: It wasn’t because of the articulation or engineering of the toys, or the fancy-shmancy CGI of the cartoon (I was stupid and didn’t even realize there was a cartoon for some time), it was all because of the shake-up on the conceptual level: Transformers turning into animals. A whole dedicated line of robots turning into realistic animals! Keep in mind, I’d only been aware of G2 and its robots turning into cars for its three-or-four years, and shifting the whole concept over like that still rocked my world. I can only imagine the meltdown of newfangled awesomeness my tiny brain would’ve endured had I been through all of G1 (and even that had been fraught with nutty shake-ups like Headmasters, Pretenders, Micromasters, and so forth).

So you can imagine the ennui I find myself enduring when, after jumping from robots turning into vehicles, to a whole bunch of new guys in new factions turning into animals, to one of those factions fighting another new faction turning into crazy ‘living’ alien vehicles on their home planet, that we seem to have settled back into just ‘Autobots and Decepticons turning into cars and planes fighting each other on Earth’ for the better part of ten years now. Yawn. Where’s the originality? Where are the crazy shake-ups that take the core concept of Transformers (robots turning into shit) and really do something new and original with it? Where are the new casts that aren’t Optimus and Megatron and Bumblebee and Starscream for the umpteenth time?

Power Core Combiners got close, having almost nothing but new characters with toys based around a whole new mechanic. But the toys could’ve obviously used another cycle in development, and Hasbro and retailers seemed to lose faith in the line almost as soon as it was released. Plus, it was still rooted in Autobots and Decepticons turning into vehicles, and I’d really like to see that particular element get pushed out in favor of some truly new stuff.

Over in the HoF thread, Six questioned where you would even go for an ‘original’ TF series at this point. So I’ll throw out some ideas that have floated into my head at one time or another. Indeed, many of these borrow concepts from other franchises or series, but adapting ideas that have worked for other things is one way to err on the side of success when you’re trying to inject some ‘new-ness’ into your brand.

One idea that hit recently was a group of individually-power hungry Transformers landing on a primitive world and, in an attempt to garner resources from it and start spreading influence, each setting themselves up as a ‘god’ of a particular area of the planet, with different tribes and species each dedicating themselves to them and becoming their army. The robots would turn either into grand alien approximations of fantastical monstrosities, or maybe otherworldly vehicles, meant for troop transport. The ‘armies’ could be multiple minifigures that could be loaded in or on the Transformer ‘god’ components to be mobilized into battle, and if the Warhammer influence wasn’t obvious enough already, Hasbro could even design a tabletop battle game around all the various purchasable pieces. With all the designs being otherworldly in the first place, and the minifigures setting a benchmark, they could actually inject a real sense of scale into such a line, with large mechanical gods flanked by their servants, or residing in huge, transforming playsets of bases or mechanical battle transports. There’s also the enjoyable idea that every character introduced at the main size class would basically be a faction unto themselves, maybe with smaller characters, or even troop-buildable Cybertronian drones to fill out a given army.

What about a line entirely of racing vehicles, with plotlines similar to the Velicitron arc of ‘Cybertron’? Characters could belong to different racing teams, with the focus on the toys being tuning and customization, allowing you to swap out wheels, spoilers, engines, and even body pieces for truly individualized toys. There could be little pit crew members in smaller size classes, and large, buildable, customizable track sets. The story could be more oriented in a sporty direction, though moral conflicts could arise with stuff like illegal tuning parts, and shady underground races.

Or going on the sports thing, they could even branch out to more sports-themed TFs. Team buses and planes turning into built-for-the-game Football and Baseball robots. I’d buy the hell out of a Zamboni turning into a Cybertronian hockey player.

Go the other direction and appeal to the video game demographic. Those Skylanders things seem popular with the kids; what about a couple of ‘leader’ characters who turn into plug-and-play video game consoles, with additional characters turning into attachable cartridges to let you play as them through additional missions?

That hilarious-looking Cyberverse TFPrime mech-suit thing makes me think, why not a whole line expanding the concept of cityformers? Armies of Cybertronians waging war on each other from their playset-scale bases, and then when things get really crazy, the cities they’re defending themselves transform and engage in gigantic-scale battles, the winner of these conflicts ‘annexing’ the conquered territory and physically combining with it to become a larger city/base/playset, and a bigger, badder robot.

They could go even larger! Remember War Planets? A whole line of massive-scale Cybertronians turning into planets to do universe-wrecking battle with threats too big to ever be handled before (maybe Unicron’s got himself an army now?)! With transforming moons and rings as extra weapons and accessories!

And this is all just me spitballing! Surely Hasbro has it in them somewhere to do something new with the Transformers brand and franchise. They don’t exactly have to go as crazy as the concepts I’ve thrown out here, just one big change to what’s become an annoyingly constant formula would be nice (we’ve hardly had any Transformers turning into mythological creatures, why not a whole line of that? Or maybe a Combiner made up of both vehicle and animal-altmode guys?). I’d just hate to think that Beast Machines was the last time Transformers was ever going to surprise me. After RiD, I kept waiting for even the *faction names* to change again…and then they didn’t.
Spoiler
Yeah, Kre-O is kind of a step in the right direction.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Dominic »

One problem is arguably defining what is "original". There are only so many idea and such. But, the combination and execution of those ideas can yield good results.
know I tend to harp on it annually, but man was I ever blown away by Beast Wars back when it first came out. And here’s the thing: It wasn’t because of the articulation or engineering of the toys,
Oh, Honey Bear will tell you, that for a while, every BW toy that I got my hands on ended up in some heavily twisted/articulated pose. Sometimes it was lewd. But, mostly, it was just to make use of all the joints. I only started to get over it during RiD.

all of G1 (and even that had been fraught with nutty shake-ups like Headmasters, Pretenders, Micromasters, and so forth).
G1 had some solid ideas. But, it got too far away from what made the line work as toys and let ideas that could have carried sub-lines become the whole line. "Action Masters" is the most extreme example of this, if only because it arguably killed the line. But, as a side line of "Transformers who lost the ability to transform and came to rely on flexible vehicles and war gear" it could have worked.
Power Core Combiners got close, having almost nothing but new characters with toys based around a whole new mechanic.
There old characters. But, they were all minor. Huffer was the biggest name in that line. And, PCC was better for it.

and I’d really like to see that particular element get pushed out in favor of some truly new stuff.
Cybertronian vehicles?

Indeed, many of these borrow concepts from other franchises or series, but adapting ideas that have worked for other things is one way to err on the side of success when you’re trying to inject some ‘new-ness’ into your brand.
Maybe we should all agree that anything we discuss in this thread is "okay for Hasbro to use"?
....The ‘armies’ could be multiple minifigures that could be loaded in or on the Transformer ‘god’ components to be mobilized into battle, and if the Warhammer influence wasn’t obvious enough already, Hasbro could even design a tabletop battle game around all the various purchasable pieces. With all the designs being otherworldly in the first place, and the minifigures setting a benchmark, they could actually inject a real sense of scale into such a line, with large mechanical gods flanked by their servants, or residing in huge, transforming playsets of bases or mechanical battle transports.
I like this. Have more than 2 factions, a few characters on each faction, troop builders, and non-TF aliens.

As a compliment to this, (even though you touch on customizing elsewhere), the non-character troopbuilder Cybertronians could be customizable. I am given to understand that Hasbro sells "blank" MLP bodies. Why not stripped/blank TF bodies?
What about a line entirely of racing vehicles, with plotlines similar to the Velicitron arc of ‘Cybertron’? Characters could belong to different racing teams, with the focus on the toys being tuning and customization, allowing you to swap out wheels, spoilers, engines, and even body pieces for truly individualized toys. There could be little pit crew members in smaller size classes, and large, buildable, customizable track sets. The story could be more oriented in a sporty direction, though moral conflicts could arise with stuff like illegal tuning parts, and shady underground races.
Cross-market with NASCAR. Release some electric race track sets. Include CDRoms with templates for custom character profiles and tech specs

And, yeah, the series sounds good too....

Go the other direction and appeal to the video game demographic. Those Skylanders things seem popular with the kids; what about a couple of ‘leader’ characters who turn into plug-and-play video game consoles, with additional characters turning into attachable cartridges to let you play as them through additional missions?
Why are you not working in marketing? Seriously. Make this shit happen.

They could go even larger! Remember War Planets? A whole line of massive-scale Cybertronians turning into planets to do universe-wrecking battle with threats too big to ever be handled before (maybe Unicron’s got himself an army now?)! With transforming moons and rings as extra weapons and accessories!
Sizes and price points need to be realistic/sensible. The conquerable bases idea is solid though.


Dom
-serious about letting Hasbro know this thread is here.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by 138 Scourge »

I could completely get behind the sports-team related Transformers, provided that they were able to branch out into my favorite sport...College Basketball. I'd pay good money for a red-and-blue bird that transforms into a bad-ass basketball-bot.

I really like the idea of having increased customization possible in one's TFs. Like, take a page out of Xevos' book and let you build your own damn Transformer out of pieces of the toys they already have. Of course, this would either lead to shellforming at an epic scale, or to alt-modes that are goddamn ridiculous, but if it was a racing-type thing, and the characters had similar alt-modes anyway...I dunno. As a kid, I loved toys that I could build with and rearrange, never was crazy for Legos as much as some, but stuff like MOTU's Modulok, or even the generally forgotten Mantech line, I was all over that.

It's come up before around here, but I motion for a "Transformers throughout history" line. Give us a Trojan Horse that unfolds into a crazy battle-base, and has characters that can transform into smaller weapons, and then the horse transforms into a giant Greek warrior that can use those weapons. It's likely the most obvious example, but by criminy, it'd be something.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Shockwave »

Damn. Those are some good ideas there. And here I was thinking "Robots already turned into cars and stuff, then they turned into animals, what's left to turn into? Aliens?"

Or maybe expanding the Real Gear bots from the 2007 line. An entire line of characters that only turn into devices, neither vehicles nor animals. there's all sorts of new tech now days that hasn't seen a TF altmode that I think an entire line could be carried by that.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by 138 Scourge »

Oh shit, I got it. Robot Hindenberg, that turns into a blimp and stores a bunch of mini-cons that turn into fireballs in new and exciting ways.

Actually, I'd be okay with some crazy new transformation schemes. Remember how nuts the Classics Mini-Cons could get? Whatever happened to the guy that made those?
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Onslaught Six »

See, maybe I'm becoming older and cynical, but part of me sees some of these ideas and thinks, "Where's the Transformers in it, though?"

Years ago 86 and I were writing Ethereal with a few of you here (or, well, on BWTF), but at some point we were refining the storyline concepts and realized there was absolutely zero reason for this to be a Transformers story. They never transformed. There were no recognizable characters. (Even "Battle Convoy," who was G2 Laser Prime, was a separate character altogether, and simply shared design cues and his name.) The factions had long been eradicated in-story. There was nothing left to make it recognizable as a Transformers story, so we spun it off and it became its own thing entirely.

That said, I do like your "All Velocitron" line idea. It reminds me of Zoids: New Century Zero. (Now there was a series that got rid of a long-standing series' whole backstory and idea of factions, and was arguably better for it. I loved New Century Zero and couldn't get into Chaotic Century at all.)

My thing is, I think you need context. There needs to have been 'a' recognizable TF period in the past. Even Ethereal, which was wildly different, was based on the idea that Universe had ended with Unicron's death, and all factions had been eradicated, and tons of dudes had ended up in this universe as refugees from other ones. But there 'was' a recognizable period of TF in the past. Optimus Prime should be A Guy Who Was There, but he's no longer around, for whatever reason. Maybe he's still the Autobot leader, but since the action takes place elsewhere, we never see him. Kind of like Ultra Magnus in Animated.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by BWprowl »

Dominic wrote:One problem is arguably defining what is "original". There are only so many idea and such. But, the combination and execution of those ideas can yield good results.
What I was trying to go for was ‘things that have not been done as concepts for Transformers lines before’.
Maybe we should all agree that anything we discuss in this thread is "okay for Hasbro to use"?
I mean, if they actually want to, sure. Making the thread was less about actively coming up with new ideas for Hasbro (particularly considering they clearly have no desire at this point to innovate the line this much) and more about demonstrating that coming up with ‘new’ concepts for TF is completely plausible, and shouldn’t be discounted as there being ‘nothing else left to do’ (as Six implied over in the HoF thread).
As a compliment to this, (even though you touch on customizing elsewhere), the non-character troopbuilder Cybertronians could be customizable. I am given to understand that Hasbro sells "blank" MLP bodies. Why not stripped/blank TF bodies?
It flat-out mystifies me that neither Hasbro nor Takara has put out an entirely white version of the Classics Seeker mold.
Why are you not working in marketing? Seriously. Make this shit happen.
Because I lack the intestinal fortitude to obtain the necessary business degrees and break into the hard-edge world of corporate marketing? I don’t know if being a nerd who wastes his time at work fantasizing up hypothetical toylines is a qualification Hasbro would look for on a marketing resume. It’s fun though.
Sizes and price points need to be realistic/sensible.
Well yeah, that’s what the whole ‘scale’ thing is about. You’d still have Deluxes and Voyagers and so forth, they’d just…turn into planets and junk.
Onslaught Six wrote:See, maybe I'm becoming older and cynical, but part of me sees some of these ideas and thinks, "Where's the Transformers in it, though?"
They’re Cybertronian robots who turn into shit? What else do you need?

One thing to remember is that I’m more toy-focused when it comes to TF. Hasbro makes cool transforming robot toys, so if they put out a line that does that, regardless of if they’re Autobots and Decepticons fighting and turning into cars, or what, I’m in. Then if they want to construct some fiction around that toyline, as long as it doesn’t suck, that’s fine.

Again, Beast Wars: All the characters were new, only recognizable names were Optimus and Megatron, the things they turned into were totally unprecedented at the time, even the faction names were different. But you can’t argue that it didn’t have any Transformers in it. And then the cartoon started bringing in elements from G1, and tying it all together, so that even with its disparate elements, it still fit into the Transformers canon/universe.
Years ago 86 and I were writing Ethereal with a few of you here (or, well, on BWTF), but at some point we were refining the storyline concepts and realized there was absolutely zero reason for this to be a Transformers story. They never transformed. There were no recognizable characters. (Even "Battle Convoy," who was G2 Laser Prime, was a separate character altogether, and simply shared design cues and his name.) The factions had long been eradicated in-story. There was nothing left to make it recognizable as a Transformers story, so we spun it off and it became its own thing entirely.
I don’t talk about the story contexts too much in these hypothetical ideas, mainly because…they’re hypothetical, but you’ll notice that I stuck with having Robots Turning Into Stuff throughout all of them. That’s the point I’m trying to make: That you can stick to TF’s core idea of Robots Turning Into Stuff, and still go (relatively) new places with it, instead of feeling like you’re being forced to rehash the same characters and concepts year after year.
That said, I do like your "All Velocitron" line idea. It reminds me of Zoids: New Century Zero. (Now there was a series that got rid of a long-standing series' whole backstory and idea of factions, and was arguably better for it. I loved New Century Zero and couldn't get into Chaotic Century at all.)
I know right! How the hell does that even work anyway? Chaotic Century was the dark, complex war story that should have been all cool and full of intrigue, but it didn’t work and it sucked, while New Century was just a simple tournament fighting story, and it kicked six kinds of ass! Why isn’t that show out on DVD? (Great, now we’ll end up having to spin off a Zoids discussion)
My thing is, I think you need context. There needs to have been 'a' recognizable TF period in the past. Even Ethereal, which was wildly different, was based on the idea that Universe had ended with Unicron's death, and all factions had been eradicated, and tons of dudes had ended up in this universe as refugees from other ones. But there 'was' a recognizable period of TF in the past. Optimus Prime should be A Guy Who Was There, but he's no longer around, for whatever reason. Maybe he's still the Autobot leader, but since the action takes place elsewhere, we never see him. Kind of like Ultra Magnus in Animated.
Again, all of these ideas were conceived as ‘Toyline First’. Were Hasbro to enact any of them (Hahahaha, no!) they’d obviously staple some sort of vague-to-influential larger TF context to it. Maybe the pseudo-god TFs on the primitive planet are trying to colonize a place post Cybertron-destruction, Headmasters-style. Maybe the racing series comes during a Pax Cybertronia, with TFs as a conflict-based race needing SOME way to compete and conflict with each other. Like I said, maybe the planet-formers are marshalling an army against a greater Unicron-style threat.

Again, I need to point out that the thread wasn’t about specifically pitching these ideas or anything (though it is fun! Scourge, I would so buy robot Wright Brothers combining into an early aircraft), but more about showing how there’s still plenty of life left in more original ideas for Transformers. We’re just some unprofessional nerds on the internet, and look at the stuff we’ve discussed already! It shouldn’t be that hard for a company like Hasbro to come up with *something* other than “Goodguybots and Badguycons turning into cars and fighting on Earth”.

And I know they don’t exactly have a lot of motivation to do so, what with TF still being rather successful as it is. That’s why in that other thread, talking with JT about availability and cancelled toys and so forth, I said it may not be so bad for TF to keel over and cool down for a couple years, so Hasbro would HAVE to innovate, and we’d get something new and interesting for once.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Shockwave »

Prowl, you should watch Rescue Bots. Optimus Prime is in it for all of like, 2 seconds and then it's all new characters. And the disguise element is a major theme so far.
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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Dominic »

I really want to see a couple of Prowl's ideas realized as toy lines. The only problem is that some of them might require more large size toys than could be realistically sold.

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Re: New Concepts in Transformers

Post by Mako Crab »

I really like the idea of a series set on Velocitron. It's an idea I was kicking around for a while myself, but never turned into fanfic. Basically, I was just looking for a setting where I could have Transformers without the constant war stories. Seems every TF piece of fiction is set to the backdrop of the Great War, and after a while, I was bored with it. There are other ways to generate conflict without having to have a perpetual war all the time.

With Velocitron, I can see the Autobot and Decepticon factions being done away with. Instead, smaller race teams would stand in for squads, each with their own unique team name and logo. Love the idea of customizing and tuning the racers, though that would play hell on the toy designers. Maybe it could work if the transformations were really simplistic.
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