All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Onslaught Six
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

Dominic wrote:Reading it in the store? Dirty pool old man. Dirty pool. (Mind you, I do the same thing with other books on occasion.)
He also might've downloaded it. (Which I was doing towards the end, too, if only because my comic shop wasn't getting the issues in and I wouldn't have been able to drive out there to buy them anyway.)
-well, Don Figueroa is always good to look at.
Hahahano.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

Dominic wrote:I am saying McCarthy was writing Megatron above the level of the old cartoons and stereotypical comics.
Yeah, apparently he was writing him to be Klingon.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Given how well that the Decepticons were implied to be doing elsewhere, (scattered groups of Autobots wondering if they are the only ones left), it looks like the Decepticons had very little to challenge them. The problems the guys on Earth were having looked to be a microcosm for what the rest of the Decepticons were dealing with.
You're leaving out that the Autobots had successfully challenged the Decepticons for millions of years up to that point. Catching one lucky break after all that time to scatter the Autobot forces like that is nothing short of a miracle. Really I find it a shortcoming of the story for the Decepticons to have beaten the Autobots so badly like that.
There is a difference between writing a character who is willing to use violence and writing a character who is getting off on it and "kilz hiz own dooodz cuz he am teh bad giy".

I am saying McCarthy was writing Megatron above the level of the old cartoons and stereotypical comics.
"Getting off on it"? What posts are you reading? I'm not saying Megatron would have killed his own troops just to get a kick out of it, I'm saying he had a purpose for it. Sacrificing a few dissenters in favor of reshaping the army into what he intended them to be.

And as I've said before, it doesn't seem to me that McCarthy was writing Megatron above that level.
Shockwave wrote:Yeah, apparently he was writing him to be Klingon.
That I can see. Essentially a race of warriors bent on fighting and conquering. And not above fighting/killing each other for various reasons as well.
Dom wrote:Motiivation means everything. If the trains are running on time, and everybody is happily busy, Megatron can be confident that most of the Decepticons are not going to rebel. (They might go along with one, but must will not bother to start one.) But, with guys like Ramjet or Starscream, Megatron has to be on guard even if things are going well.
Again, the individual motivations are irrelevant here. The simple fact of the matter is these guys wanted a change and were rebelling against Megatron's leadership to accomplish it, and Megatron met the first two with brutal results to end it. My point is that this situation was headed in the same direction.
Reading it in the store? Dirty pool old man. Dirty pool. (Mind you, I do the same thing with other books on occasion.)
Normally reading at the store isn't something I do. I usually know what I want to buy beforehand, but I was so disappointed with this series that about halfway through I decided to 'screen' the rest to decide if I really wanted to buy those issues or not. The guys at my LCBS are pretty cool about that, especially with their regular customers like me.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

You're leaving out that the Autobots had successfully challenged the Decepticons for millions of years up to that point. Catching one lucky break after all that time to scatter the Autobot forces like that is nothing short of a miracle. Really I find it a shortcoming of the story for the Decepticons to have beaten the Autobots so badly like that.
The Decepticons had a huge intelligence advantage. This would have have been a force multiplier, as they could employ resources sneaky like and more effectively.

"Getting off on it"? What posts are you reading? I'm not saying Megatron would have killed his own troops just to get a kick out of it, I'm saying he had a purpose for it. Sacrificing a few dissenters in favor of reshaping the army into what he intended them to be.
"Getting off on it" would be the wrong words actually. But, Megatron holding a purge to ensure loyalty would be foolish when a political gesture would be cheaper.

Saying Megatron is just going to kill his own guys when there are easier ways to get everyone in the tent is just assuming the same level of writing the cartoon had at its lower points.

Again, the individual motivations are irrelevant here. The simple fact of the matter is these guys wanted a change and were rebelling against Megatron's leadership to accomplish it, and Megatron met the first two with brutal results to end it. My point is that this situation was headed in the same direction.
KIlling one or two guys in a targeted way is much different from sacrificing large numbers of troops in one go.

What has McCarthy said about this by the way?
Normally reading at the store isn't something I do. I usually know what I want to buy beforehand, but I was so disappointed with this series that about halfway through I decided to 'screen' the rest to decide if I really wanted to buy those issues or not. The guys at my LCBS are pretty cool about that, especially with their regular customers like me.
I screen some books. But, as I am committed, by in-store sub, to buying most of what I buy, screening is less an option.

Cue the rant:

My local shop seems to actively dislike TF as a franchise. Ordering to sell-through, effectively meaning all copies he orders go to subs, is a common trick stores use. It is a bad idea in the long-term, but it is common. But, the manager of my local store seems to actively dislike the title to the point he would rather not sell it.

In theory, I have a sub. But, I still have to order every issue one at a time. This rule does not apply with my sub to "Spiderman: Clone Saga" or "Archie". But, with "Transformners", (the one thing I read consistently), I have to order each issue individually.

The reason given is that he does not know when I am going to drop the book, and want warning. Mind you, I have consistently read TF since '02, (such as it came out). And, I have been a subscriber with him for 9 years, and am fully aware that I would be committed to a book for 2 months after I cancelled a sub. Ordering each issue individually from Diamond is effectively the same as me having a sub, except it is more work for both the store and myself.

The store has effectively taken the book I read consistently, and made me a casual customer who has to commit two months in advance. Granted, I still get a discount, but nobody else has to commit one issue at a time 2 months in advance, especially on books they read consistently.

And, I am pretty sure he would not order a book if I forgot to come in and order it. In other words, if I do not get a chance, or simply forget, to order a single issue of a comic from Diamond Previews, he will not order it. He actually did this with AHM volume II. I had to special order it from another, more reliable (if geographically inconvenient), store. He offered to back-order it, but I refused. He blew the sale. (And, he will probably blow it with volume III.) If I miss an issue of TF, I am dropping the book.

This all started when I started dropping books, and really picked up when I dropped "GI Joe". Apparently, he solution to declining sales is to create more work for himself and his customers by *discouraging* sales.


Dom
-maybe he just does not want *my* money?
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by andersonh1 »

At one point I had a pull list at the comic shop I've recently begun shopping at again. I set it up when IDW got the Transformers license, and I picked up the various Transformers titles every month along with Green Lantern from DC. One of the reasons I quit collecting for awhile, apart from price and distance, was because when I got a few months behind, rather than calling me to confirm whether or not I was coming in to pick up the books, the store simply emptied out my pull bin and put the books back on the shelf. I lost several months worth of books, and didn't care to pay back issue bin prices to catch up. I was a little put out with them, since I figured they took my name and phone number for a reason, but didn't bother to use them.

I'm not bothering with a pull list at this point. I figure for one or maybe two books a month that there's no point.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

I have had pull-lists with only 1 book on it at some point. f nothing else, the fewer books I read, the less tolerance I have for missing issues.

Dom
-picking this up in the comics thread.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

Wow, your guys' comic shops suck. I've had pull lists at two comic shops, one was close to where I live now and they were great. Gave me the discount and would call me not only when I hadn't been there in a month, but also if related items would come in. Then I moved out of my parent's house and started going to another comic shop where I still go (in spite of having moved back in with my parents). There have been a few issues that have been missed, but they've always been great about getting them and if they didn't have it, they try to order it. In one case, I went back to the previous shop which had some of the issues in question and they still gave me the discount! The only reason the current comic shop has missed anything recently is because they didn't get it, they generally have extra copies of everything even TF comics.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:The Decepticons had a huge intelligence advantage. This would have have been a force multiplier, as they could employ resources sneaky like and more effectively.
Clearly, but the thing is, one Autobot had all the Decepticons needed to bring down all of the Autobot forces, every Autobot ship, every base, every installation, everything everywhere? That I find way over the top. The Autobots are smart enough to know you don't allow one access to every security clearance (or what have you) for exactly this reason.
"Getting off on it" would be the wrong words actually. But, Megatron holding a purge to ensure loyalty would be foolish when a political gesture would be cheaper.

Saying Megatron is just going to kill his own guys when there are easier ways to get everyone in the tent is just assuming the same level of writing the cartoon had at its lower points.
I agree, a political gesture would be cheaper, but again, that isn't where he was apparently going with his plans by all indications in the story. Again with the "assuming"? No, as I've said, I'm just going with what the story gives us, which does happen to be at the same level of writing as the cartoon.
KIlling one or two guys in a targeted way is much different from sacrificing large numbers of troops in one go.

What has McCarthy said about this by the way?
"Large numbers"? There were several siding with Starscream, but compared to the rest of the Decepticon army, I wouldn't exactly call that a large amount. Not large enough it would really impact the over all force of the entire Decepticon army anyway. As you've said, perhaps Megatron may have anticipated less rebelling, but that doesn't change the direction the story was going in.

And I haven't seen McCarthy saying anything on AHM lately.
My local shop seems to actively dislike TF as a franchise. Ordering to sell-through, effectively meaning all copies he orders go to subs, is a common trick stores use. It is a bad idea in the long-term, but it is common. But, the manager of my local store seems to actively dislike the title to the point he would rather not sell it.
I've never actually heard of a store doing that. The guys at my store have their own personal opinions about any given story of course, but they've never held their personal bias over a book like that. Like Shockwave describes, my store is great. If they do run out of an issue, they'll call around to other stores trying to find that issue for me.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by andersonh1 »

I'm reading this story in reverse order. Great fun... I'd recommend that for every story. :mrgreen:

All Hail Megatron volume 2 TPB

I take it from reading the discussion that the story didn't work for some of you. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and perhaps having six issues in one volume improves the pacing and ties things together more effectively. I can't say, having not read individual issues. I enjoyed the story very much.

The volume begins with the creation of the Insecticons and the Swarm, and I was happy to see some art by EJ Su, whose art I liked quite a bit in Infiltration and Escalation. Thundercracker is not happy about the experiments used to create the Insecticons and the way the cast-offs are treated. "Our own kind!" he keeps insisting. It's little scenes are reactions like this that make him and others more than just background filler characters. And there are other similar scenes here and there.

The Autobots are on the run, and the way in which they were defeated and sent to Cybertron is explained by Jazz to Kup in a flashback. Devastator is the ace in the hole that he was back in the early G1 days, when he was the only combiner. It's odd that Megatron doesn't just have the Autobots all killed rather than sending them to Cybertron to be eaten by the Swarm though. I'm not sure I buy that, unless he thought they might be needed later. It's an odd choice. Regardless, Prime manages to close the portal, leaving the Autobots alive but trapped. So they're on the run, leaderless and pursued by crazy mutant Insecticons.

It's a rough scene when Ironhide beats up Mirage, convinced that he's the traitor and unwilling to hear him out. Sunstreaker, the actual traitor, stands there and watches, and it's clear this later plays into his decision to confess and end it all, as his consicence gets the better of him. As an aside, it's nice to see the Universe versions of Sunstreaker and Sideswipe used in the story, and also Mirage I believe. I'm not sure if there were others, though I did see Dropshot and Tankor/Octane near the end, which was a nice touch. Sunstreaker's apparent death is the end of a downward spiral for a proud Autobot who was violated badly by humans and who couldn't get past that. His agreement with Starscream sealed the deal, since the dire situation the Autobots find themselves trapped in can be laid directly at his feet. I'm not convinced that he's dead, since he survived the explosion and the fall as shown in issue #14, even if he is in bad shape, but that's neither here nor there. Death is meaningless in comics.

Starscream goes around gathering support for a coup, fully aware that Megatron knows what he's up to. I find the portrayal of Starscream very interesting here. He's ambitious as always, but he also genuinely seems disenchanted with Megatron's leadership and lack of goals, and he seems genuinely to believe in the Decepticon cause rather than simply being out for power. Megatron tells him at one point that he sees Starscream ultimately succeeding in wresting leadership from him one day, and that's enough to rally Starscream behind Megatron against the Autobots. And he refuses to use the opportunity to simply kill Megatron when he's helpless and take his place, saying that leadership must be earned. This seems to be a Starscream that isn't stupid, but recognizes that he's got to have the respect of the troops in order to lead them, and killing an already helpless Megatron isn't likely to get him that respect.

Omega Supreme is one of my favorite figures and characters, so having him show up and save the day was great. His explanation of how he survived the attack sent to finish him off ("I am Omega Supreme") says it all.

One of the themes of this series is the way in which various characters pay for deals with the other side. Sunstreaker is the obvious example, but Thundercracker strays from prevailing dogma and gets shot in the head by Skywarp. Drift is rejected by Thundercracker as a traitor. Ironhide beats Mirage badly because he believes Mirage is a traitor. Both sides are so locked into their causes and beliefs that there's no room for compromise. And considering how long they've been fighting, it's not surprising. But it makes one wonder how peace would ever be possible, assuming the war was ever decisively won by either side. The overall theme of this story seems to explore this idea to some extent, as the Decepticons stagnate without a challenging enemy to fight, and the Autobots fall apart without Prime to rally them, though they are in a terminal situation admittedly.

There's a lot more, but I won't regurgitate the entire plot. Suffice it to say, I'm sorry I missed the issues the first time around. I like the ideas behind the story, and the way in which the characters were used. I'm glad I've been drawn back into reading the comics. Looks like I've missed out on some good stuff.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Onslaught Six »

McCarthy has Tweeted recently that he's doing some kind of new TF-related project for IDW, so I'm happy that the Last Stand of the Wreckers won't be the only thing I'm interested in coming from IDW.

I read Volume 2 yesterday, and I have to say--Yeah, Megatron's plan isn't exactly solid. But that's *okay.* A core component of Megatron's personality has always been that he's at least a little bit insane. After all, he's a machine built to destroy and nothing else, who rebelled against jackass politicians and decided the best way to fix all of that was to 'kill everyone who didn't agree with him.'

The fact remains that, in essence, that's what he's also doing to the Decepticons. Originally they were meant to be a force to conquer a planet. And then the Autobots showed up, and Megs had to branch out a little bit to defeat them--recruiting every half-sane maniac with machine guns on their forearms. And then the Autobots were (seemingly) defeated, so Megs decided the best course of action was to do what he did before--kill everyone who didn't agree with him. Peace Through Tyranny.

And that's why the series rules. (And also Reflector pulls apart humans. And Soundwave cared that Rumble got his ass kicked. If only it were drawn better.)
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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